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I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

danq.me

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Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#201

Post by account42 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #132
acheron wrote: post #91

I know laptops have a bit of a different standard, but for real keyboards, IBM perfected keyboard design in 1985 and all deviations from that are a mistake.

Are you talking about the dual rows of 12 function keys across the top, as in the old mainframe 3270 terminals? Or the "Model F" keyboard with the two vertical rows of 5 keys on the left edge of the keyboard? For me, full-size function keys are the minimum. Granted that real-estate is at a premium on laptops but this isn't an impossible ask IMO.

Well he did say they designed it in 1985 which somewhat narrows it down.

I have to agree with gp, the Model M layout is what I consider the "default" and there is very little reason to deviate from it.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#202

Post by account42 »

amelius wrote: post #179
GalaxyNova wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's because a lot of the time you want to use a different keyboard layout. For instance with international keyboards.

I mean most of the time I want just the layout like it says on the keys. Isn't that representative of at least 90% of all users?

No? Touch typists (which ideally should be everyone using a computer more than occasionally) will prefer the layout they are used to. Programmers are often better off using QWERY + dead keys instead of their country's native layout which might map common programming characters to akward positions. If you are actually looking at the keycaps while typing you're doing it wrong.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#203

Post by account42 »

skirmish wrote: post #193
piekvorst wrote: post #10

Instead of using a single menu bar icon “volume control,” I have transferred the lessons of the keyboard to the GUI and placed two buttons in my menu bar: volume down and volume up. I have been using them all the time for about half a year now. The benefits of this approach, to my knowledge and estimation, include: no waiting for a slider to appear; no nested actions; no need to read the current value; each click doe…

What works well for me is a taskbar icon with mouse scrolling (Waybar pulseaudio module on Sway). You see 50% and a speaker icon, hover and scroll up or down to instantly change.

I prefer having keyboard shortcuts and NOT seeing the numeric volume level at all because otherwise I will have to set the volume to a multiple of 5 or 2 even if the optimal setting is another number. You could also do this with scrolling but for something where you might want immediate changes its good to have keys or key combinations that reliably work everywhere (even with fullscreen applications) instead of having to position the cursor over a small icon.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#204

Post by account42 »

liendolucas wrote: post #90

I hate laptops now shipping with the Office 365 logo. Apparently the Windows logo wasn't enough. How many more Microsoft symbols will keep polluting keyboards?

Pretty sure there will be a Copilot logo soon if it isn't there already on new keyboards.

One advantage of mechanical keyboards is that you can usually get custom keycaps with whatever logo you want.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#205

Post by account42 »

bee_rider wrote: post #72

The F1-F12 keys have always felt like one of those things where… it’s like, people who enjoy oldschool interfaces seem very attached to. And I love the terminal, so I feel like I ought to have strong opinions in their favor. But the only time I need to use them is… what is it, ctrl-alt-F3 to switch to a console if my window manager has fallen apart. This is a very rare event, so I can’t find any strong feeling here.…

F2 to rename files

F4 to open a console window in the current directory from Dolphin

F5 to refresh, or quicksave in games

F9 to quickload

F11 to fullscreen browsers and some other programs

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#206

Post by phendrenad2 »

This is an example of a spandrel, an evolutionary maladaptation that becomes self-reinforcing. The chain of events is as follows: Shaving 1.5" off the top of the keyboard and removing a row of media buttons saves the keyboard company $2 or something. So one budget keyboard company does it. Other companies see this and think "oh, they did market research and realized that people WANT a smaller keyboard more than they want media buttons" and suddenly you can't find a lightweight bluetooth keyboard with separate media buttons. The keyboard industry is blissfully unaware of their mistake until a brave soul named Dan Q blogs about it.

This kind of thing is usually quickly corrected, but in a niche like bluetooth keyboards with a touchpad (seriously how many use those other than nerds with jellyfin or a raspberry pi)

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#207

Post by webstrand »

account42 wrote: post #199
webstrand wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could remove the insert key, but unlike the caps-lock that no application rebinds, insert does get rebound. I wish there was an OS level control "pressing insert by accident should not turn on mangle-my-text-mode".

Plenty of games do rebind Caps Lock as a regular key.

I don't actually know of any? I've long since removed the key from my keyboard, and haven't come across anything that actually used it. What games?

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#208

Post by zapzupnz »

stronglikedan wrote: post #133
zapzupnz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense on a trackpad too which is what the majority of sold Macs come with. You’re “pushing” the document, not moving the scroll bars. Seems perfectly natural to me. My fingers move up, the document moves up; just like what would happen to a piece of paper being slid up a table. Yes, it’s less direct than touching the screen, but it makes more sense for the model of UI they’ve been going for over the last 20…

> It makes sense on a trackpad too No, it doesn't. Trackpads always worked fine until "they" reversed the motion. Now it's always a guessing game for the initial scroll. It's terrible, unintuitive, and doesn't make sense. "Natural" is unnatural.

Touching a trackpad is just an indirect way to touch the document. You're doing the exact same motion, pressing upwards on the trackpad to push the page upwards.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#209

Post by zapzupnz »

tjoff wrote: post #46
zapzupnz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense on a trackpad too which is what the majority of sold Macs come with. You’re “pushing” the document, not moving the scroll bars. Seems perfectly natural to me. My fingers move up, the document moves up; just like what would happen to a piece of paper being slid up a table. Yes, it’s less direct than touching the screen, but it makes more sense for the model of UI they’ve been going for over the last 20…

On any non-apple system it has the "natural" scroll on the touchpad AND sane scrolling behavior.

It doesn't have that on Windows. When natural scrolling is enabled on Windows, it works the same as on macOS.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#210

Post by piekvorst »

account42 wrote: post #203
skirmish wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What works well for me is a taskbar icon with mouse scrolling (Waybar pulseaudio module on Sway). You see 50% and a speaker icon, hover and scroll up or down to instantly change.

I prefer having keyboard shortcuts and NOT seeing the numeric volume level at all because otherwise I will have to set the volume to a multiple of 5 or 2 even if the optimal setting is another number. You could also do this with scrolling but for something where you might want immediate changes its good to have keys or key combinations that reliably work everywhere (even with fullscreen applications) instead of havin…

The icon is traditionally small indeed, but it shouldn’t be. I use the strings “vol-“ and “vol+” as icons, which makes the whole thing 8 characters long.

As a universal law, optimizing the fullscreen experience is a suboptimal goal. Generally, the best solutions are the ones that operate at the appropriate level, and if we optimize the fullscreen experience, then most solutions built for the right level are inaccessible to us.

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