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Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

arstechnica.com

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Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#41

Post by tristanj »

surgical_fire wrote: post #36
tristanj wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The helicopter in question was flying in Oman, in Omani territorial waters. Why does Iran have the right to fire drones into other countries?

Gee, I wonder why? Maybe because the Israel-US axis decided it was a good idea to start bombing them earlier this year? Could be that? Perhaps, and this is a long shot, they see military equipment close to their border as a threat? People get weird like that when countries start bombing their schoolgirls into minced meat.

Or maybe Iran decided to start building nuclear weapons? They already have long range missiles, with enough range to strike most of Europe. Iran can place a nuclear warhead on one of these missiles, and they have an ICBM.

This entire conflict was fully avoidable if Iran never pursued nuclear weapons.

Why can't Iran just be a normal country, and not pursue nuclear weapons?

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#42

Post by Planktonne »

SirFatty wrote: post #40
Planktonne wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, procurement times on new equipment is on the order of several years to nearly a decade. There's not enough time to produce nor acquire this hardware. This has not seemed to be a problem for the countries using them; what makes the US so uniquely inefficient?

Unlike Iran and Ukraine, the US military weapons are not manufactured in someone's garage or basement.

But Iran and Ukraine are being very effective with their basement drones. If the US's manufacturing is fancier but not faster, meaning that it takes longer to get weaponry, that's not a good thing. It sounds like waste more than industry.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#43

Post by surgical_fire »

tristanj wrote: post #41
surgical_fire wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gee, I wonder why? Maybe because the Israel-US axis decided it was a good idea to start bombing them earlier this year? Could be that? Perhaps, and this is a long shot, they see military equipment close to their border as a threat? People get weird like that when countries start bombing their schoolgirls into minced meat.

Or maybe Iran decided to start building nuclear weapons? They already have long range missiles, with enough range to strike most of Europe. Iran can place a nuclear warhead on one of these missiles, and they have an ICBM. This entire conflict was fully avoidable if Iran never pursued nuclear weapons. Why can't Iran just be a normal country, and not pursue nuclear weapons?

> Or maybe Iran decided to start building nuclear weapons?

Is that a good excuse to turn schoolgirls into minced meat?

Also, let's not pretend this started in a vacuum. The US has been interfering in Iran for many decades.

> This entire conflict was fully avoidable if Iran never pursued nuclear weapons.

> Why can't Iran just be a normal country, and not pursue nuclear weapons?

If anything, history shows that every country should pursue Nuclear weapons.

That is the best insurance policy one can have against the US.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#44

Post by tristanj »

surgical_fire wrote: post #43
tristanj wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe Iran decided to start building nuclear weapons? They already have long range missiles, with enough range to strike most of Europe. Iran can place a nuclear warhead on one of these missiles, and they have an ICBM. This entire conflict was fully avoidable if Iran never pursued nuclear weapons. Why can't Iran just be a normal country, and not pursue nuclear weapons?

> Or maybe Iran decided to start building nuclear weapons? Is that a good excuse to turn schoolgirls into minced meat? Also, let's not pretend this started in a vacuum. The US has been interfering in Iran for many decades. > This entire conflict was fully avoidable if Iran never pursued nuclear weapons. > Why can't Iran just be a normal country, and not pursue nuclear weapons? If anything, history shows that every co…

Iran would largely be left to itself if it did not pursue hostile foreign policy against countries in the region.

Is Iran in a better position after firing missiles at Azerbaijan, Oman, and Turkey? All three of these countries were neutral or friendly towards Iran, until Iran fired missiles at each unprompted.

Its current situation is largely self-inflicted, and a result of poor foreign policy choices.

> If anything, history shows that every country should pursue Nuclear weapons.

Why stop there, we should give every person on Earth nuclear weapons.

That policy will lead to world peace, since there will be no world left to live in.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#46

Post by wolvoleo »

tristanj wrote: post #38
wolvoleo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does Iran have the right to fire drones into other countries? If America hadn't started bombing Iran in the first place this wouldn't have happened anyway. Things would have been peaceful and oil prices would have been fine.

And if the US/Israel didn't strike Iran, Iran would have ICBMs with nuclear warheads, which Iran could use for peace. Did you forget the purpose of the war?

The pretense that has already been debunked you mean. Iran was nowhere near having nuclear weapons.

The purpose of the war was keeping Netanyahu in power by having a constant war going on. And Trump went along because he was promised a quick win which he could have used to turn his midterms around.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#47

Post by tristanj »

wolvoleo wrote: post #46
tristanj wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if the US/Israel didn't strike Iran, Iran would have ICBMs with nuclear warheads, which Iran could use for peace. Did you forget the purpose of the war?

The pretense that has already been debunked you mean. Iran was nowhere near having nuclear weapons. The purpose of the war was keeping Netanyahu in power by having a constant war going on. And Trump went along because he was promised a quick win which he could have used to turn his midterms around.

> Iran was nowhere near having nuclear weapons.

No, that's outdated. Iran had ~440kg of uranium enriched to 60%, enough for 9-10 nuclear weapons enriched to weapons grade. Given Iran's enormous centrifuge fleet, enrichment to enough material for a single weapons grade nuke would take 2-3 days. To enrich the entire amount would take 2-3 weeks.

This comes straight from the 2025 IAEA report.

https://armscontrolcenter.org/irans-stockpile-of-highly-enri...

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#48

Post by roryirvine »

conartist6 wrote: post #27
roshin wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people might not like it if it was targeted, but if it got slightly damaged (and currently functional) as collateral damage to a military target, I assume more people would be okay

If it was targeted, my understanding is that that action would fit the technical definition of a war crime

It would also be a war crime even if it was merely reckless rather than deliberately targeted.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#49

Post by Steltek »

inglor_cz wrote: post #28
tristanj wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely incorrect. The attitude within the military industrial complex towards drone/UAVs has shifted enormously since the Russia/Ukraine conflict. However, procurement times on new equipment is on the order of several years to nearly a decade. There's not enough time to produce nor acquire this hardware. The US military is sitting on decades of older equipment. The Ukraine conflict started four years ago. Complai…

"However, procurement times on new equipment is on the order of several years to nearly a decade." Interesting that the Ukrainians can design, develop, produce and deploy a new type of a drone in something like 6 weeks. Of course, they are in a life-or-death struggle and thus cannot afford a decade of paper wars with various lawyerly and MBA types who want to have their say. That said, the US cannot afford those eith…

You present two issues: 1) the US is slow to adapt to drone warfare and 2) the US is losing to Iran.

For 1), the US isn't in a hurry because there's no actual threat. The lack of drone warfare capabilities only impacts US action overseas and of the little bipartisan consensus left, one thing is clear: no new wars (Trump's Iran war is seen as betrayal from his own party but it's hard to oppose Dear Leader).

For 2), it's hard to win when you don't know what you're doing or declare victory when you don't know what your goals are. I'm not sure there's even domestic agreement that it's a war.

Re: Cheap Iranian drone downed $25M US Army helicopter–maybe by chance

#50

Post by surgical_fire »

tristanj wrote: post #44
surgical_fire wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or maybe Iran decided to start building nuclear weapons? Is that a good excuse to turn schoolgirls into minced meat? Also, let's not pretend this started in a vacuum. The US has been interfering in Iran for many decades. > This entire conflict was fully avoidable if Iran never pursued nuclear weapons. > Why can't Iran just be a normal country, and not pursue nuclear weapons? If anything, history shows that every co…

Iran would largely be left to itself if it did not pursue hostile foreign policy against countries in the region. Is Iran in a better position after firing missiles at Azerbaijan, Oman, and Turkey? All three of these countries were neutral or friendly towards Iran, until Iran fired missiles at each unprompted. Its current situation is largely self-inflicted, and a result of poor foreign policy choices. > If anything,…

> Iran would largely be left to itself if it did not pursue hostile foreign policy against countries in the region.

Yes, yes.

Like it was left to itself in the 50s and 70s.

Cool story bro.

> That policy will lead to world peace, since there will be no world left to live in.

You know what does not lead to world peace? A situation where the US believes it has free pass to bomb other countries and interfere on them unchecked.

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