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Who's the smartest corvid?

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Re: Who's the smartest corvid?

#91

Post by Ntrails »

helterskelter wrote: post #17
JohnMakin wrote: post #3

One of the craziest behaviors I have seen was from a murder of American crows in a big city area sidewalk I walk down frequently - occasionally, I have observed homeless and vagrants throwing stuff at them, because sometimes they sleep under the powerlines where the crows like to perch and I think the crows defecate on them or something. It's well known they can carry grudges, but one day, as I was walking down the s…

Crows in country will wait for a newborn deer to be left alone in a field by their mothers shortly after birth to peck the baby's eyes out so it dies and the crow can eat it later. My neighbor had told me about this happening, and maybe a month later I saw a fawn with its eyes pecked out shortly after it had died. The doe just sat at the edge of the field by it all night. So sad, but really smart of the crows. Crows…

A goose was protecting its young as some (crows/ravens/idk) hopped around close on the ground. Mama hissed and flapped a little. Crows back off a bit.

Meanwhile another crow flies in, picks up a gosling by the neck (i swear there wasn't much difference in size, unreal to see) and flies off with it.

I could see the whole thing coming, was remarkable.

Re: Who's the smartest corvid?

#92

Post by tialaramex »

fortran77 wrote: post #11
tejohnso wrote: post #6

Chasing a bird of lesser intelligence so that it slams into an office building window seems especially cruel.

Birds chase coyotes so they slam into the sides of cliff walls, sometimes even painting a fake tunnel to fool the coyote.

I believe that canonically the tunnel painting is made by the coyote, the problem is that because it's a cartoon the bird can run into the non-existent tunnel anyway and the coyote cannot because that's funnier.

It is interesting that e.g. "Coyote time" was copied into platform games but in real life if you're not stood on solid ground you fall immediately 'cos Mother Nature doesn't give a shit what's more fun.

Re: Who's the smartest corvid?

#93

Post by tialaramex »

MisterTea wrote: post #34

> At least five such cases involved biologists: in Montana, Crow White ... Crow White is a hell of a name. Bravo to their parents.

Humans are allowed to just change their names. It's not very common, especially in academics because your name is attached to your reputation, but it's not forbidden or even especially unusual. [And of course in several important cultures women are expected to change their name when they marry, although this seems like a terrible idea to me and in general I recommend against it]

So it is entirely possible that they went "I think I will take the name Crow White, that's hilarious" and a PhD later they're a professor running research on corvids.

Edited to add mention of cultural convention to change names on marriage.

Re: Who's the smartest corvid?

#95

Post by zavec »

tejohnso wrote: post #6

Chasing a bird of lesser intelligence so that it slams into an office building window seems especially cruel.

It definitely seems brutal, but when I stop and think about it it's actually probably more humane for the prey than getting eaten alive, right?

Re: Who's the smartest corvid?

#96

Post by braggerxyz »

I live next to a farm in a rural town. We have lots of cats around which are necessary to keep the rodents in check. Our cats love to play their prey to death in our yard (yeah nature is cruel). Some of the local crows know how to get the dead mice from the cats. One or two crows distract the cat, the cat likes to chase the crows for the thrill of the hunt, and then one crow swoops in and steals the cats prey. The cats are always bamboozled when this happens and we watch and laugh. Really smart these feathered freaks :D

I leave shelled peanuts and other bird feed out in the winter, and is fascinating to watch the crows and magpies to crack them open, feed on some of them, then grab two shelled peanuts and fly off with them. They already recognize me coming out in the winter mornings with the bird feed and peanut bags. They wait patiently in the surrounding trees until I'm in the house again. They even see me through the windows watching them and only come down to feed once I am out of sight for them. Truly remarkable.

We also have some pairs of red kites in our area which circle over our fields for prey. The crows don't like them and will try to chase them away, mostly in packs of two to three crows. They are 99% successful in chasing the red kites away because they are more agile in the air and can do more complex flight manouvers. But once one of the crows got to close to the claws of the kite and was killed instantly and dropped down dead. What happened then was even more fascinating. The whole flock of crows gathered around their dead companion and maybe "mourned"? I don't know how to else explain it.

Next winter I will try to befriend them even more, they are so fascinating!

Re: Who's the smartest corvid?

#97

Post by conartist6 »

verisimi wrote: post #80
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the evil here seems to be being a predator, which for the doe it would be reasonable to say the predator is evil, but examining the natural order of things from outside, as a human observing the doe, the fawn, and the crows, that is a pretty weird judgement to make. The predator has evolved to eat the prey, if that is evil then nature is evil or if you like, whatever created nature.

'Evil' is a human characterisation, and is not applicable to animals imo; to apply it is to anthropomorphise the animal. An applicable use of 'evil' for an animal, would be if you believe the animal 'knows better', eg a dog that knows right or wrong (in its way) but does something it thinks it shouldn't.

The longer I live the more evidence I see the barrier between humans and other animals is thinner than we would like to imagine.

So I counter you with a practical question: can a crow commit a social transgression that will result in punishment by other crows? My strong suspicion is that the answer is yes, though I would love documentation as it would suggest a crow-cultural definition of morality

Re: Who's the smartest corvid?

#98

Post by braggerxyz »

wrboyce wrote: post #66
JohnMakin wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read there's also a social aspect - crows are extremely social creatures, as are humans, and other highly intelligent animals like whales. That does seem to be a common denominator. Regarding that, I'm reminded of another story - on my daily walk near work, there was a dead crow on the pavement. 5 or so crows were standing all around it, doing nothing really. Even me passing close by did not trigger them to fly…

Corvids have been known to investigate deaths, truly fascinating creatures! https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00033...

Thanks for the link. I observed a flock of "mourning" crows around a dead one in the field behind my yard. I was flabbergasted at what I was seeing. So they are mourning and investigating the cause of death for the sake of the flock. Wow!

Re: Who's the smartest corvid?

#99

Post by braggerxyz »

observationist wrote: post #41
JohnMakin wrote: post #3

One of the craziest behaviors I have seen was from a murder of American crows in a big city area sidewalk I walk down frequently - occasionally, I have observed homeless and vagrants throwing stuff at them, because sometimes they sleep under the powerlines where the crows like to perch and I think the crows defecate on them or something. It's well known they can carry grudges, but one day, as I was walking down the s…

They plan pretty deeply - if you think about things like plastic lid snowboarding, or cup sorting games (fit the smaller cups inside the larger) and those types of puzzles, there's usually an abstract reward, whether it's fun, play, revenge, or some future food or whatnot. They tease other animals, will play fetch, demonstrate a rich emotional inner life, and all of those things can be motivations for their complex p…

> ... glorious chaos. I like that concept. Thanks for the laugh! :D

Re: Who's the smartest corvid?

#100

Post by trick-or-treat »

In my part of the world there's a cuckoo that pulls a heist on crows where the male makes annoying noises and the crows chase him off while the female cuckoo invades the nest and leaves an egg. When the egg hatches the bird inside looks nothing like a crow but the crow mama never catches on and pays child support until it's grown.

That cuckoo gets my vote for cleverest.

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