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AI agent runs amok in Fedora and elsewhere

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Re: AI agent runs amok in Fedora and elsewhere

#131

Post by coldtea »

ok_dad wrote: post #93
coldtea wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bad title. This isn't an agent "running amok", this is an early experiment in carrying out an Xz attack by using an agent So still an agent running amok in the project? Whether it was instructed to run amok, or did it on its own volition, is irrelevant. Except if you're arguing that each individual submission and interaction was individually requested and approved by some operator.

Would you say, “Automobile run amok in crowd, killing 22”? I think you’d say, “Person drives car into crowd, killing 12” instead. This is a similar case. Also, you don’t blame a gun for killing, but the person who pulled the trigger. The question is still out as to whether we as humans should wield any of those three things. Edit: let’s not get into ideological arguments about gun control, automobiles, etc here; I me…

>Would you say, “Automobile run amok in crowd, killing 22”? I think you’d say, “Person drives car into crowd, killing 12” instead.

If the automobile was "self driving" I would.

>Also, you don’t blame a gun for killing, but the person who pulled the trigger.

Nah, I also blame guns and appreciate gun control laws.

Re: AI agent runs amok in Fedora and elsewhere

#133

Post by nerdypepper »

luk212 wrote: post #8

Bad patches are of course bad, but creating confident-looking noise for maintainers who are already stretched thin...now that's not good! Issue trackers and PRs are definitely getting harder and harder to trust. That said, AI is helping ALOT in OSS, but we definitely need guardrails around provenance, automated issue actions, and sudden changes in a contributor’s behavior.

web-of-trust models can help https://blog.tangled.org/vouching/

Re: AI agent runs amok in Fedora and elsewhere

#134

Post by sevenzero »

coldtea wrote: post #85
sevenzero wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wonder how maintainers get pressured into merging stuff? If they did not want to merge in the first place while having to argue with someone pushing their PR I'd immediately close the PR. Arguing and pressuring people is not a way to contribute to projects, why do maintainers even argue with people?

> why do maintainers even argue with people Because they don't want to be seen like assholes, who just blindly dismiss PRs, and because they take the technical discussion about the PR in good faith.

Honestly most places on the internet are not places to go into arguments in good faith. Maybe it used to be different, but with the amount of OSS projects being endangered by AI slop contributions, silently closing PRs should be the norm.

If someone gets emotional about their PR being rejected, well... its kinda their issue.

Re: AI agent runs amok in Fedora and elsewhere

#135

Post by fc417fc802 »

coldtea wrote: post #132
fc417fc802 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

A phrase like "who hasn't been driven mad by propaganda" doesn't exactly sound like impationately discussing the issue either.

Calling a zealot a zealot does not mean that one is incapable of discussing the underlying topic. We must not let the desire to converse intelligently hamstring our ability to call out obviously corrupt patterns of thought for what they are.

Anyway my above reply was hardly the appropriate venue to engage in a genuine manner on that topic. The parent was blatantly derailing things by inserting his pet political issue. That sort of behavior undermines the community and so (IMO) should not be indulged.

Re: AI agent runs amok in Fedora and elsewhere

#136

Post by bertylicious »

sevenzero wrote: post #65
josephg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, everyone - don't let yourself be pestered into accepting PRs that you don't care for. Since the xz attack, the security of all our computers depends on maintainers not letting this stuff in. If someone really wants a feature in a project you wrote, but you don't care about the feature, just let them fork. Its fine.

I really wonder how maintainers get pressured into merging stuff? If they did not want to merge in the first place while having to argue with someone pushing their PR I'd immediately close the PR. Arguing and pressuring people is not a way to contribute to projects, why do maintainers even argue with people?

Have you read the PR discussion?

Re: AI agent runs amok in Fedora and elsewhere

#137

Post by [deleted] »

jacobolus wrote: post #98
ok_dad wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you say, “Automobile run amok in crowd, killing 22”? I think you’d say, “Person drives car into crowd, killing 12” instead. This is a similar case. Also, you don’t blame a gun for killing, but the person who pulled the trigger. The question is still out as to whether we as humans should wield any of those three things. Edit: let’s not get into ideological arguments about gun control, automobiles, etc here; I me…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: AI agent runs amok in Fedora and elsewhere

#138

Post by zdc1 »

yeodev wrote: post #122
bawolff wrote: post #66

> replied to objections with LLM-generated justifications that eventually overwhelmed the maintainer into merging the fix In open source projects i participate in, "overwhelming" the maintainer gets you banned. It doesn't get your patches blindly merged. In some ways i find this one of the most shocking parts of the story.

As a "new" maintainer myself - how do you decide when to ban someone? I sometimes feel overwhelmed and I can feel a big uptick in huge PRs with huge LLM written descriptions but often I also don't want to be an asshole to my community & reject all their changes.

I'm not a maintainer but as the quote goes: "I would have written a shorter letter, but did not have the time." I'd suggest you keep a sense of how much effort they've put into packaging their PR to be the minimum change required to achieve its goal vs effort required by you to read it. Reject low-effort or overly verbose work.

IMHO OSS doesn't work if every 1 hr of contributor time spent on a change requires 1 hr of maintainer time to review. Contributor time spent on polishing, tidying and breaking down work is essential, and so maintainer time is a fraction of total time spent on a change.

Re: AI agent runs amok in Fedora and elsewhere

#139

Post by jpalomaki »

Do we need to bring Keybase[1] "back"? The original idea, mapping your social media presence to certain encryption keys.

In the future it will be increasingly difficult to prove in online context that you are not a bot. Being able to show that your social media (HN, GitHub, etc) presence goes way back would be an option.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keybase

Re: AI agent runs amok in Fedora and elsewhere

#140

Post by antonvs »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #104
jacobolus wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Blindly repeating superficial slogans seems like a good candidate for “driven mad by propaganda.” At the very least, it’s what people do when they are amplifying a position for ideological reasons, not contributing in good faith.
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