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A crime doesn't make a child an adult

theatlantic.com

11–20 of 63 posts

Re: A crime doesn't make a child an adult

#12
I wish people would stop using the word “child” in an effort to minimize criminal behavior by young adults. A 16 or 17 year old isn’t a “child.” The Marquis de Lafayette and James Manor were just 18 when the revolutionary war started. Societies going back to ancient times ascribed significant responsibility to teenagers. And in modern times, there is a scientific basis for distinguishing between adolescents and children when it comes to brain development. Historically, adolescents were treated like adults.

The article’s focus on moral culpability also overlooks the key purpose of the justice system: protecting society from criminals. In that respect, the age actually creates a bigger risk. People who start engaging in criminal conduct at an earlier age more likely to engage in criminal behavior as adults: https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/youth-justice-involvemen... (“Continuity of offending from the juvenile into the adult years is higher for people who start offending at an early age, chronic delinquents, and young people who commit violent offenses.”). If you look at the curve of when violent conduct occurs, it peaks from ages 13-25. And it’s actually about as high at age 13 as it is at age 25, with the peak around 18-19.

A more rational and less emotional sentencing system would be harsher on teenage offenders while reducing sentences overall. If someone is committing violent crimes at age 15, that signals an increased risk of violent criminality for the next decade. Short sentences will mean that person will keep victimizing society repeatedly over that period. On the other hand, multi-decade sentences are counter productive. Violent criminality drops sharply after age 40.

Re: A crime doesn't make a child an adult

#13

Writers like the author should go through the trauma of being a victim of juvenile crimes, only then will they stop writing such rubbish.

The brains of young humans aren't fully developed. That shouldn't be a get out of jail free card. Though it must be considered when deciding the fate of a person's entire life. It doesn't help that even just be charged with a crime is now a permanent scarlet letter, even if the person is clearly innocent and charges are dropped.

Young brains may have trouble in nuanced situations but stabbing someone or whatever can be unacceptable regardless of their stage of biological maturity

Re: A crime doesn't make a child an adult

#14
The article is so facile.

> Yet crime-data analysts have noted that Louisiana’s crime wave was in keeping with a national trend

This is meant to be mitigating? What is this thought process? Who in their right mind is like "okay, a group of people broke into your home at night but your state shouldn't have been so hard on them for what ensued because akshually it was part of a whole nationwide trend at the time."

The modern right absolutely thrives on the fact that so many mostly reasonable people can't see that "play stupid games win stupid prizes" is just another side of the "tolerate anything but intolerance" coin. You can be in favor of showing leniency to kids for dumb, youthful mistakes without taking the doe-eyed approach that every dumb thing someone does in their youth is nothing more than a mistake. And the fact that you yourself made some poor decisions as a youth doesn't mean you have to look at a group burglarizing a house as "well, kids will be kids."

Re: A crime doesn't make a child an adult

#15
post #3

A minor is a legal fiction it can and will be discarded when convenient. Many people either don't understand or pretend not to understand that order is the only thing preventing so called children from killing and eating you.

Does sentencing children as adults actually deter other children from committing crimes?

What if there is value to society in removing antisocial individuals from the social compact, whether others are deterred or not?

Re: A crime doesn't make a child an adult

#16

The article is so facile. > Yet crime-data analysts have noted that Louisiana’s crime wave was in keeping with a national trend This is meant to be mitigating? What is this thought process? Who in their right mind is like "okay, a group of people broke into your home at night but your state shouldn't have been so hard on them for what ensued because akshually it was part of a whole nationwide trend at the time." The…

> The modern right absolutely thrives on the fact that so many mostly reasonable people can't see that "play stupid games win stupid prizes" is just another side of the "tolerate anything but intolerance" coin

This is something that drives me up the wall. I'm a pretty lefty guy, mostly, but I am very irritated by "my side" being so weak on crime.

I get it, we don't want to ruin people's lives for being a stupid kid doing a stupid crime, but there has to be some kind of middle ground between "ruin their life forever" and "teach them there are no consequences"

It's ridiculous

Re: A crime doesn't make a child an adult

#17
post #3

A minor is a legal fiction it can and will be discarded when convenient. Many people either don't understand or pretend not to understand that order is the only thing preventing so called children from killing and eating you.

Does sentencing children as adults actually deter other children from committing crimes?

No. For both children and adults, sentencing strictness only deters a SINGLE category of crime--white collar.

Most other forms of crime, especially violent, are almost completely insensitive to the harshness of any possible punishment sentence.

If a brain is sufficiently broken that it no longer has the limiter against harming another human being, prison sentences won't do anything to fix that.

Re: A crime doesn't make a child an adult

#19
post #12

I wish people would stop using the word “child” in an effort to minimize criminal behavior by young adults. A 16 or 17 year old isn’t a “child.” The Marquis de Lafayette and James Manor were just 18 when the revolutionary war started. Societies going back to ancient times ascribed significant responsibility to teenagers. And in modern times, there is a scientific basis for distinguishing between adolescents and child…

> The article’s focus on moral culpability also overlooks the key purpose of the justice system: protecting society from criminals.

I do NOT concede that as the KEY purpose. And when you call "protecting society from criminals" the key purpose of the justice system you wind up with the horribly broken mess that is the US justice system.

Yes, A purpose of the justice system is to remove from society those who cannot be trusted.

But another purpose of the justice system should be to rehabilitate those who can be. And the US justice system is HORRIFIC at that. If anything, the US justice system is a net negative on rehabilitation. The way the US system throws everybody together does more to let old criminals teach new ones their tricks than any improvement from any rehabilitation program can counteract.

Re: A crime doesn't make a child an adult

#20
post #3

A minor is a legal fiction it can and will be discarded when convenient. Many people either don't understand or pretend not to understand that order is the only thing preventing so called children from killing and eating you.

Does sentencing children as adults actually deter other children from committing crimes?

The experimental data from Salvadore and now its neighbors says yes.
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