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macOS Container Machines

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Re: macOS Container Machines

#401

Post by embedding-shape »

pjmlp wrote: post #399
embedding-shape wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also everyone on FOSS gets it wrong, WSL wasn't a subsystem like classical Windows NT ones. Everyone in FOSS? How about Microsoft got it wrong, since they actually named it The Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL)? It wasn't the FOSS community who chose the name for them.

What has that to do with a version number and not keeping up with the times?

What version number? WSL1 vs WSL2?

I'm not sure if you see the quoted part. My comment is about the part that starts with "> " that you wrote earlier.

Re: macOS Container Machines

#402

Post by nozzlegear »

neop1x wrote: post #296
cromka wrote: post #181

So essentially both macOS and Windows now heavily support developing using Linux on them. They can't more openly admit that they are no match for Linux in that area. There's some clever advertising in it for Linux, if Linux was advertising.

A lot of devs needs to use linux but they still use it just as a VM (Mac) or in some kind emulation (WSL). How pathetic.

What's pathetic?

Re: macOS Container Machines

#403

Post by pjmlp »

leshenka wrote: post #389
WatchDog wrote: post #25

Do these containers share a common kernel? Or are they each ran in a separate VM? Edit: It's a VM per container. https://github.com/apple/container/blob/main/docs/technical-...

Isn't it wasteful? I know it's a "tiny" vm but still is a vm

See Kata containers.

https://katacontainers.io/

For ultimate security, containers alone aren't enough.

Windows is also having a similar feature on top of WSL, announced at BUILD.

https://github.com/microsoft/mxc

Re: macOS Container Machines

#404

Post by nozzlegear »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #346
tannhaeuser wrote: post #224

Just to clarify, this requires Mac OS 26 Tahoe for "container" doesn't it? So those of us holding out on Sequoia who can't stand the broken glass UI or what's called and the other undesired features need to stick to Docker desktop.

I turned off what "glass" UI I could with config, and it's not too different than Sequoia, got used to it pretty quick. Obviously the things not supported on an old OS will keep increasing, until eventually it is EOL'd.

I didn't make any adjustments and hardly ever notice Liquid Glass on macOS. To me, it's only ever noticed if I hang out in the control center/notification center all day.

Re: macOS Container Machines

#405

Post by golem14 »

djsavvy wrote: post #184
golem14 wrote: post #163

I belong to a rare breed of very opportunistic hobby-developers that like to use MacOS but also like to use linux machines or BSDs (rpi etc) sometimes. I can create docker-images with docker compose, or use something like colima, which this seems to be close to (that should have some advantages over docker, although my hope of circumventing W^X page protection did not pan out). I was perplexed that the repository doe…

Why try to circumvent W^X page protection? Some sort of self-modifying program without extra pointer indirections?

I just do, Mr Cooch, I just do.

Re: macOS Container Machines

#406

Post by Danox »

m132 wrote: post #85

Every time I see Apple flaunting Linux containers I can hardly consider it as anything but admitting defeat. It could easily be Darwin, if they still had the capacity.

Darwin is open source still available (anyone who has the guts and talent) can pick up the gauntlet it’s been about 26 years. For example, those three engineers who left Apple to form Nuvia (to bad they didn’t want to do a OS to go along with hardware).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system)

https://github.com/PureDarwin/PureDarwin

https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/1b75xlv/why_is_darwi...

https://x.com/LeakerApple/status/2018467873308786771 Nuvia

Re: macOS Container Machines

#407

Post by fc417fc802 »

jdub wrote: post #383
lxgr wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The surface of an OS is definitely larger than that of many hypervisors, which is e.g. why browsers often provide their own much narrower sandbox. On the other hand, in other scenarios, people trust the security boundaries of their working as expected all the time, no? This is the basis of e.g. Android app isolation (every app runs under its own Linux UID/GID), and true multi-user Unix systems trusting the OS's secur…

Different threat models. Your typical Android device (and Linux server for that matter, at home or at scale) is not usually running security-sensitive general workloads for multiple tenants in the same OS instance. :-)

I don't think that's right. The threat model for Android for example could well be a malicious third party leveraging a vulnerable app to gain access to your banking app on the same device. There's definitely (meant to be) a security boundary between apps.

Re: macOS Container Machines

#408

Post by apitman »

binsquare wrote: post #374
golem14 wrote: post #163

I belong to a rare breed of very opportunistic hobby-developers that like to use MacOS but also like to use linux machines or BSDs (rpi etc) sometimes. I can create docker-images with docker compose, or use something like colima, which this seems to be close to (that should have some advantages over docker, although my hope of circumventing W^X page protection did not pan out). I was perplexed that the repository doe…

I built this tool to solve that exact problem: https://github.com/smol-machines/smolvm

Been playing with this lately. Definitely worth checking out. Makes really nice tradeoffs IMO.

Re: macOS Container Machines

#410

Post by tonymet »

qalmakka wrote: post #189

This is all fine and dandy, but where are the native Darwin Jails Apple? Still scared that people will filling whole rooms of Mac Minis if you allow them to have multiple macOS containers and not only up to two fat VMs per machine?

You would want a layer above darwin, e.g. Foundation, Appkit -- all the stuff that runs the full MacOS. but good idea overall
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