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Providers, not insurers, are responsible for excess U.S. health care cost (2024)

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Re: Providers, not insurers, are responsible for excess U.S. health care cost (2024)

#11

Post by zephen »

neilwilson wrote: post #5

It’s not a matter of profit. It’s a matter of costs. From the graphic the insurers take in $371.6b and pay out $241.9b in medical services costs. That’s $130b on a pointless activity that uses up physical resources that would be better deployed elsewhere in the economy. Healthcare needs to be provided as a matter of course, and “competition” won’t improve it or control it because there is always a supply side shortag…

> That’s $130b on a pointless activity that uses up physical resources that would be better deployed elsewhere in the economy.

No, it's much worse than that. How much time and money is spent by medical providers dealing with the billing?

Arguably at least twice as much -- the insurers have economy of scale that providers can't match.

And that's before you even get to the direct time and stress impacts on the consumer from bullshit denials.

Re: Providers, not insurers, are responsible for excess U.S. health care cost (2024)

#12

Post by [deleted] »

znnajdla wrote: post #9
neilwilson wrote: post #5

It’s not a matter of profit. It’s a matter of costs. From the graphic the insurers take in $371.6b and pay out $241.9b in medical services costs. That’s $130b on a pointless activity that uses up physical resources that would be better deployed elsewhere in the economy. Healthcare needs to be provided as a matter of course, and “competition” won’t improve it or control it because there is always a supply side shortag…

It’s neither a matter of profits nor costs. It’s a matter of incentives. The basic principle of capitalism can’t work if the buyer doesn’t have a choice, if the buyer is not the one who usually pays, and if the payer has a way of avoiding responsibility to pay. The privatized health insurance system is truly and completely fucked up.

[deleted]

Re: Providers, not insurers, are responsible for excess U.S. health care cost (2024)

#13

Post by lopsotronic »

jayturley wrote: post #4

Yep, for-profit healthcare is a bad idea. It's the main reason our USA healthcare costs so much.

"Stay 'til 2300 codepounding or watch your child die of a medieval disease" seems to work really well for productivity, though.

Oh, no, people stopped having children. Whatever could be the reason.

Re: Providers, not insurers, are responsible for excess U.S. health care cost (2024)

#14

Post by zephen »

tqi wrote: post #6

They are not solely responsible, but of course they bear some responsibility. ACA has a Medical Loss Ratio that requires insurers to spend 80% or 85% of premium revenue on medical services "thereby limiting administrative costs and profits to the remaining 15-20 percent."[1] In other words the only way for them grow profits is to increase cost. This guy is way out of his depth. [1] https://www.rand.org/pubs/external_…

> the only way for them grow profits is to increase cost.

And, of course, things like spurious denials drive up costs for them and for the providers. More direct costs, more costs at the provider they have to cover...

From the insurance company perspective, it's a win-win!

Re: Providers, not insurers, are responsible for excess U.S. health care cost (2024)

#16

Post by colechristensen »

neilwilson wrote: post #5

It’s not a matter of profit. It’s a matter of costs. From the graphic the insurers take in $371.6b and pay out $241.9b in medical services costs. That’s $130b on a pointless activity that uses up physical resources that would be better deployed elsewhere in the economy. Healthcare needs to be provided as a matter of course, and “competition” won’t improve it or control it because there is always a supply side shortag…

The rest of the world has private healthcare on top of the public ones because the public ones are often inadequate.

Just go look for the local debate in any country with government healthcare and look for the parties who are pushing for change and their complaints.

Then ask yourself if you really would want the current administration in charge of your healthcare... if you'd like every four years to be a coin toss for how your healthcare was going to be for the next four years.

People arguing for public health care, are you ready to say you want Donald Trump to be in charge of your health insurance instead of a private provider? (because we're not in a magical fairy land where government is efficient and agrees with everybody's priorities)

Re: Providers, not insurers, are responsible for excess U.S. health care cost (2024)

#17

Post by jasonlotito »

jayturley wrote: post #4

Yep, for-profit healthcare is a bad idea. It's the main reason our USA healthcare costs so much.

> Yep, for-profit healthcare is a bad idea. It's the main reason our USA healthcare costs so much.

And yet it still exists in the rest of the world. But people tend to think of it only as for rich people as opposed to covering things the rest of the world ignore. I'm not saying the US is perfect, but having lived under both kinds of healthcare, cost and quality are two reasons I'm in the US.

Re: Providers, not insurers, are responsible for excess U.S. health care cost (2024)

#18

Post by xenadu02 »

znnajdla wrote: post #9
neilwilson wrote: post #5

It’s not a matter of profit. It’s a matter of costs. From the graphic the insurers take in $371.6b and pay out $241.9b in medical services costs. That’s $130b on a pointless activity that uses up physical resources that would be better deployed elsewhere in the economy. Healthcare needs to be provided as a matter of course, and “competition” won’t improve it or control it because there is always a supply side shortag…

It’s neither a matter of profits nor costs. It’s a matter of incentives. The basic principle of capitalism can’t work if the buyer doesn’t have a choice, if the buyer is not the one who usually pays, and if the payer has a way of avoiding responsibility to pay. The privatized health insurance system is truly and completely fucked up.

By definition a free market in healthcare requires forcing some people to die from a treatable injury or condition to discover the optimal price. That's part of the definition.

Re: Providers, not insurers, are responsible for excess U.S. health care cost (2024)

#20

Post by readthenotes1 »

"But when we look at United Health Group’s operating costs in the diagram above, they’re only 22.6% of the actual cost of medical care."

A 22% decrease and a return to providers having to consider the cost implications to their patients would be a good thing.

("Return" I know a 95 year old doctor who said he still carries some guilt from keeping a poor guy in the hospital an extra night back in 1955 days because he couldn't get some blood tests done quickly enough. $5. "We only need medical insurance because we have medical insurance" ain't too far wrong)

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