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'They take you out of life, out of time': a journey into Spain's cave paintings

theguardian.com

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Re: 'They take you out of life, out of time': a journey into Spain's cave paintings

#11

Post by rigonkulous »

I feel the same sort of floating disconnected-ness when I am out back in the desert of Western Australia, and come across a rock shelter with paintings and obvious signs of working by human hands.

Its just such a humbling thing, to look at a piece of art that is 10's of thousands of years old, and realize that a human was once there, making it, just so that some day, a human would be there, looking at it.

What it would be to have a way to talk to these old humans and let them know just how inspiring their work turned out to be...

Would that we could have the same impact on humans a thousand years from now, ten thousand years from now. Hello, Future Human.

Re: 'They take you out of life, out of time': a journey into Spain's cave paintings

#12

Post by rigonkulous »

ljf wrote: post #2

Stunning, and amazing to consider that these were painted by firelight/flaming torch. If you've not watched the Herzog classic "Cave of Forgotten Dreams" - I highly highly recommend it - the paintings are amazing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_Forgotten_Dreams I was recently remembering my son's obsession with trains, buses and dustbin lorries when he was 2 to 5 - a friend tried to explain it as akin the the…

>Stunning, and amazing to consider that these were painted by firelight/flaming torch.

I could imagine the coals, not quite so much flame any more, soft and still in the windless depths, casting a warm glow for eyes to adjust in sanctity, so that the hands could find the lines in the mind and put them out on the wall.

Just a fantastic moment in time, echoing on throughout history.

Re: 'They take you out of life, out of time': a journey into Spain's cave paintings

#13

Post by dominictorresmo »

_bernd wrote: post #10
dominictorresmo wrote: post #9

Amazing that some of those paintings have a very good quality. They really trained for a long time before making some of those drawings, so they are much more intelligent than I think they were

> so they are much more intelligent than I think they were Pardon me, but we are talking about homo sapiens here? Those people would be not different then you and me. If you would raise one of their child's today it would just blend in. They were/are the same species then you and me... I just want to say please don't ride that all cavemen were stupid apes train. That boot sailed a long time ago regarding to modern sc…

ow that's awesome I didn't know that. Sorry but my perspective of them are from movies and cartoons and they always make they look very dumb

Re: 'They take you out of life, out of time': a journey into Spain's cave paintings

#14

Post by strix_mahalo »

_bernd wrote: post #10
dominictorresmo wrote: post #9

Amazing that some of those paintings have a very good quality. They really trained for a long time before making some of those drawings, so they are much more intelligent than I think they were

> so they are much more intelligent than I think they were Pardon me, but we are talking about homo sapiens here? Those people would be not different then you and me. If you would raise one of their child's today it would just blend in. They were/are the same species then you and me... I just want to say please don't ride that all cavemen were stupid apes train. That boot sailed a long time ago regarding to modern sc…

Yes, but they didn't have art schools, museums, supplies and they didn't doodle in boring classes or meetings. They didn't have an "art tradition" - or at least not in the way we do now - they had invented it themselves.

If Rembrandt, Raphael or Warhol were born back then they wouldn't have had the cultural milieu to create the same things.

Re: 'They take you out of life, out of time': a journey into Spain's cave paintings

#15

Post by nemomarx »

embedding-shape wrote: post #7
petargyurov wrote: post #4

I've been to the Altamira cave reproduction and I was skeptical at first on whether I'd feel immersed but they've done an incredible job of it. You quickly forget it's "fake" and sink back into time... It's marvellous. It makes me wonder how much palaeolithic art has been lost because it wasn't done inside a cave.

My first reaction upon seeing the article, was to figure out how I can see these paintings in person, and seems you cannot anymore, they don't accept visitor requests unless you have a scientific/research purpose which I don't :/ So this reproduction you're talking about, it's the "Neocueva" from Museo Nacional y Centro de Investigación de Altamira I suppose? I guess it'll serve as a better than nothing, but similar…

France has a few like the Lascaux caves, and I really remember my time going fondly. But I think they also had to move to a replica because of possible damage to the art from so much human breathing or similar?

It's hard to find an original one that hasn't already gone through this cycle unfortunately. Maybe ones with booked tours at invitation only fare better?

Re: 'They take you out of life, out of time': a journey into Spain's cave paintings

#16

Post by nemomarx »

ilamont wrote: post #3

What's really amazing is that they still don't know the "why" other than some interesting speculation: religious purposes, places for psychadelic trips, "the creation of surpluses in some kind of hierarchy." Coincidentally, last week the local public television station was replaying a very old program of Bill Moyers interviewing Joseph Campbell, who died in the late 80s and was known for studies of mythology. He had…

If you looked at some current building with a mural, absent all other cultural context, what might you think it was for?

It's genuinely a hard and interesting question. We only get these little scraps of history that far back, there's so much time missing from our view.

Re: 'They take you out of life, out of time': a journey into Spain's cave paintings

#17

Post by embedding-shape »

nemomarx wrote: post #15
embedding-shape wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first reaction upon seeing the article, was to figure out how I can see these paintings in person, and seems you cannot anymore, they don't accept visitor requests unless you have a scientific/research purpose which I don't :/ So this reproduction you're talking about, it's the "Neocueva" from Museo Nacional y Centro de Investigación de Altamira I suppose? I guess it'll serve as a better than nothing, but similar…

France has a few like the Lascaux caves, and I really remember my time going fondly. But I think they also had to move to a replica because of possible damage to the art from so much human breathing or similar? It's hard to find an original one that hasn't already gone through this cycle unfortunately. Maybe ones with booked tours at invitation only fare better?

> But I think they also had to move to a replica because of possible damage to the art from so much human breathing or similar?

Yeah, makes sense that'd eventually damage it. Also people moving around pushing the air around. The fact that time stood still in the places is probably the reason they're so well preserved in the first place.

Wonder if you could like glass them in or something, to really isolate them? Feels kind of sad knowing I'd damage the drawings by visiting them in person, but also really want to see them.

Re: 'They take you out of life, out of time': a journey into Spain's cave paintings

#18

Post by slg »

ljf wrote: post #2

Stunning, and amazing to consider that these were painted by firelight/flaming torch. If you've not watched the Herzog classic "Cave of Forgotten Dreams" - I highly highly recommend it - the paintings are amazing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_Forgotten_Dreams I was recently remembering my son's obsession with trains, buses and dustbin lorries when he was 2 to 5 - a friend tried to explain it as akin the the…

>If you've not watched the Herzog classic "Cave of Forgotten Dreams" - I highly highly recommend it - the paintings are amazing.

Especially if you have a chance to see it in 3D and/or on a big screen. The paintings incorporate the curves and contours of the cave walls to represent things like the bulging of muscles or even to simulate movement and that's difficult to convey in 2D. They did a remaster and IMAX re-release earlier this year and seeing it that way makes the images even more magical.

Re: 'They take you out of life, out of time': a journey into Spain's cave paintings

#20

Post by cjcenizal »

As a couple other comments have alluded, we’re the same essential creatures then as we are now. We create, we appreciate beauty, stories, and art. Sometimes it’s hard for me to feel connected to other humans, but stories like this make me feel profoundly connected to humanity. :)
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