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I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

danq.me

141–150 of 212 posts

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#141
post #47
post #7

A missed opportunity to say you 'Fn' hate the Fn key :)

Thanks for the idea! Now I'm going to mash the Fn key whenever I feel the urge to strongly emphasize something but can't actually type it out because, well, it would be Fn NSFW.

On a mac that will pop up the emoji keyboard, allowing you to further express your feelings in ways that won't render on HN :)

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#142
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't layers a form of stateful control?

I think the distinction __s is making is between layer toggles (layer is active between layer key presses, described as stateful) vs layer modifiers (layer is active while layer key is held). And there are definitely reasons to minimize keyboard state. I've been playing around with programmable keyboards (running RMK in my case) with several thumb keys. My thumb was getting fatigued, so I tried using a layer toggle t…

can you please expand on your thoughs on the thumb cluster?

(I have a dactly I kind of finished wiring, but didn't get around to programming it yet)

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple, to my knowledge, never sold a mouse with a wheel. Their first mouse with scrolling was the Mighty Mouse, which used a small trackball to simulate a touch surface. It was spring mounted and would fall flush when scrolling oven a sensation similar to the Magic Mouse (this is my favortite mouse and the one I still use today). The Magic Mouse extended on this idea by replacing the ball with a multitouch trackpad.…

All mice supported scrolling. In the before times, you use the mouse to drag the scroll thumb, which was located on the scrollbar. And you'd drag it down to see information further "down" in the document.

Of course they support scrolling with on screen controls. So has the keyboard. I said they’ve never made a mouse with “scroll wheel” which is a very specific device for physical input.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#144
post #116
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They switched the Ctrl/Fn position a year or two ago so people like you would stop complaining. Of course this means that instead you have anybody who's used a thinkpad in the last 30 years complaining about the switch. It's a little better now because they made the keys the same size, so after you switch them in the BIOS you can physically switch the keycaps around.

Every keyboard I used so far - and those were many, many, many - have the ctrl in the bottom left. Lenovo is the only weird excemption I experienced. So I believe people like me are the vast majority and you should maybe rather blame them, for introducing this weirdness in the first place.

Lenovo is the “weird exception” because thinkpads have always had the Fn key on the bottom left. Just like they still keep the track point.

I would presume most people buying a thinkpad don’t want to buy “the vast majority” of laptops.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#145
post #73
post #12

I've switched to programmable ergo keyboards where there's a whole slew of options ( https://precondition.github.io/home-row-mods just covers home row mods) I've always hated stateful control. Always ripped out caps lock key from my boards (or later figured out remapping), same for insert mode That's carried over, even with options like one shot mods, & cutting down to under 40 keys (& playing with 28, yesterday rece…

Aren't layers a form of stateful control?

Layers are usually quasi modes, i.e. the non default state requires an active holding of a modifier key.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas I cut my teeth on emacs in the early 90's, so modal is what felt awkward. I wouldn't dislike vim's modes so much if it just had one combination insert/append mode that worked like every other editor out there (including a couple other modal editors I've used), but even after adding various hacks to my vimrc to help unify the two modes, I still stumble over the behavior differences in other places. I really li…

Honestly, there are more "modern" editors with even more intuitive flows. Helix being one. I think the ideal editor for me would be something like a mix of Helix's shortcuts with structural regexp like in vis.

[deleted]

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#147
What I hate about keyboards is that you have to select your key layout when you setup your OS. Why isn't that information simply accessible over the USB protocol? Yes, I know why, because they didn't think of it.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#148
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need Fn anyway because even 16" now come without a navigation block and even if you have it (asus tm420 though they ditched that too) you have no way to make PrtScr, Break, ScrollLock. The real atrocity is placing it on the left side when 90% of the most used combos are on the right eg Fn+arrows for paging and home/end. It could be way better if Fn was on the place of ContextMenu - Thinkpad already used it for th…

I wouldn't buy a laptop that requires the use of Fn for any key I commonly use. I don't particularly care about PrtScr, Break or ScrollLock. Can't remember the last time I used either of those. But Home/End/PgUp/PgDown are requirements.

> I don't particularly care about PrtScr, Break or ScrollLock

Glad for you. But the moment you need to hit Ctrl+Break...

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with GP on stateful controls, but emacs has never clicked for me like vim did. Perhaps it's because switching between modes feels more natural than a simple toggle.

Whereas I cut my teeth on emacs in the early 90's, so modal is what felt awkward. I wouldn't dislike vim's modes so much if it just had one combination insert/append mode that worked like every other editor out there (including a couple other modal editors I've used), but even after adding various hacks to my vimrc to help unify the two modes, I still stumble over the behavior differences in other places. I really li…

> I wouldn't dislike vim's modes so much if it just had one combination insert/append mode that worked like every other editor out there (including a couple other modal editors I've used), but even after adding various hacks to my vimrc to help unify the two modes, I still stumble over the behavior differences in other places.

To be fair, for most values of "every other editor out there," they came after vi (if not after vim), so it's not like vi was discarding existing wisdom.

Re: I Hate (Most) Keyboard 'Fn' Keys

#150
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a Macbook, natural scrolling feels right on the touchpad. The real crime is not having a separate setting for a mouse. I had to use applescript tied to a keybind so I can use natural scrolling on the touchpad and toggle to regular scrolling when using a mouse wheel.

Check out Scroll Reverser; it's a tiny, open source app that solves exactly this. There are some other alternatives like BetterTouchTool if you want some other changes like gestures, but as far as this specific problem goes you can just `brew install scroll-reverser`, set up the settings you want and forget about it. Life is too short to deal with this nonsense which is clearly designed to sell the Magic Mouse. https…

Hold on, why isn't this a touchpad setting in the OS?
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