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Notes on DeepSeek

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Notes on DeepSeek

#11

Post by cmrdporcupine »

bel8 wrote: post #5

From the notes, they seem humble and empathic. We're lucky to have China imposing competiton to the western AI megacorps. If it wasn't for China, I would probably have to spend $100/mo on AI instead of $10 like I do currently while using DeepSeek and MiMo (opencode Go plan). And while I could do so comfortably, I feel for those who can't. It must feel incredibly isolating to only watch others have access to expensive…

Yep. After yesterday's moves around "Fable 5" even twice as much.

We've had a taste, and damned if I'm going to have the "means of production" snatched from me already?

Re: Notes on DeepSeek

#12

Post by gbraad »

Not sure what I read, but sounded like a lunch meeting description; felt void of actual information, with the restaurant replaced by the office. I am in China and can tell it is either Kimi, DeepSeek or Claude (proxied or actually deepseek/fake). The bigger push for the general public died down a lot since last year; kids were pushed to use AI for homework, now it is disallowed and frowned upon. In short mixed messaging.

Re: Notes on DeepSeek

#13

Post by Qhemlomo »

bel8 wrote: post #5

From the notes, they seem humble and empathic. We're lucky to have China imposing competiton to the western AI megacorps. If it wasn't for China, I would probably have to spend $100/mo on AI instead of $10 like I do currently while using DeepSeek and MiMo (opencode Go plan). And while I could do so comfortably, I feel for those who can't. It must feel incredibly isolating to only watch others have access to expensive…

I see this problem already for me.

I have unlimited tokens at work than i go home what do i do? Spend 200$ per month? No def not.

When Anthropic increased the limits for their 20$ plan, i started again coding with it on a private project and it was fun and i did a lot in that 4 weeks.

Re: Notes on DeepSeek

#14

Post by simonw »

dude250711 wrote: post #4

"Their Head of Infrastructure, in particular, was young; maybe 30 years old and apparently one of the best AI buildout and energy experts in the country" Expert in buildout or expert in distillation?

Blaming the head of infrastructure for distillation doesn't make sense to me.

Re: Notes on DeepSeek

#15

Post by ReptileMan »

dude250711 wrote: post #4

"Their Head of Infrastructure, in particular, was young; maybe 30 years old and apparently one of the best AI buildout and energy experts in the country" Expert in buildout or expert in distillation?

Both. Both are good. Anyway this shows how full of shit Anthropic are - if Mythos was so advanced as they claim - distillation attacks just wouldn't work.

Re: Notes on DeepSeek

#16

Post by windexh8er »

seydor wrote: post #6

US AI is almost a religious cult. It's devastating that they are treating it as a petty commodity

I would argue the US providers have gone full tilt into sales culture with respect to AI. Anything is said on a whim to redirect attention back from whomever is in the limelight. Initially I thought Anthropic was more pragmatic, but the constant release cycles of things that don't exist for most people, the gatekeeping, the statements made by Dario, it's all a part of large brand toxic sales and marketing.

From the notes this part sat with me as the real difference:

> As a whole, China seems to treat AI as just another technology, rather than as some kind of singularity moment. National attention is still on basic needs and infrastructure buildouts, and on providing more medicines for people. The “dreams of singularity" seem like a luxury or distant consideration.

Meanwhile... In the fantasy land over here in the US we're constantly being told that it's "coming", "almost here", "too powerful for us to give you access to", "of national security importance!". Or... FUD.

And while there may be trace amounts of truth in those overzealous statements we haven't seen a significant improvement in much outside of software development comparative to the spend and environmental impact.

Re: Notes on DeepSeek

#17

Post by infecto »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #3

"As a whole, China seems to treat AI as just another technology, rather than as some kind of singularity moment." This is a refreshing perspective.

China is probably more capitalist in many respects than the west these days. AI, robotics and automation is a way to push into the future. In the west we have endless researchers stuck in a psychosis that they are talking to a sentient being.

Re: Notes on DeepSeek

#18

Post by adampunk »

gbraad wrote: post #12

Not sure what I read, but sounded like a lunch meeting description; felt void of actual information, with the restaurant replaced by the office. I am in China and can tell it is either Kimi, DeepSeek or Claude (proxied or actually deepseek/fake). The bigger push for the general public died down a lot since last year; kids were pushed to use AI for homework, now it is disallowed and frowned upon. In short mixed messag…

It’s a puff piece written by someone who didn’t know (or didn’t care) they were being managed.

Re: Notes on DeepSeek

#19

Post by FergusArgyll »

boristsr wrote: post #10
seydor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with distillation? Wasn't GPT a distillation of the world's internet? That's how technology levels proceed, by recursively consuming the previous ones.

It's absolutely mind boggling to see claims of model distillation being theft, a class of attack, and all sorts of claims all the while Meta is in court for copyright violation, anthropic has had to settle a case with authors. With distillation "attacks" at least they paid API fees.

There are 2 things worth separating.

1) China distills and is therefore morally bad.

As you rightly point out, that's not a great argument.

2) China distills and is therefore possibly not that competent.

I think that makes sense. If they only catch up to the frontier through distillation then 1) Their model will never be as good as the model they are distilling from. 2) They will never reach the frontier - they need someone else to do it first.

Re: Notes on DeepSeek

#20

Post by zkmon »

Why would the agent send the results of the query "Show me my recent transactions" to LLM? This pretty deterministic results which involve no LLM interpretation or decision making.
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