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Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

media.mercedes-benz.com

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Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#71

Post by manarth »

eptcyka wrote: post #54
manarth wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "instead of applying engine breaking when the driver takes their foot off the pedal, they went to great lengths to _move the break pedal_ in proportion to the amount of engine breaking that is currently being applied as per the VCUs command" Regenerative braking slows the car more aggressively than an ICE where you take your foot of the gas, so the pedal change isn't putting on the brakes, it's communicating to a d…

You clearly have never used a car like that. You develop muscle memory for where the pedal is - finding that the pedal is not where it used to be does not inspire much confidence. Every other manufacturer has managed to control regen breaking via throttle modulation - even ICE hybrid cars have been doing that for ages.

I've used left-foot-braking in my (ICE-powered) daily driver for years.

Regenerative braking is very different to taking your foot off the accelerator in a conventional ICE car, it's much more powerful a stopping force than traditional engine-braking.

I understand the rationale for moving the pedal to illustrate the amount of "braking" force. I'll admit I'm not exactly a typical driver though.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#72

Post by s08148692 »

Very cool. Good to see more axial flux motors in the wild - will be interesting to see if they become the new standard in future. With smaller material costs the cost to manufacture at scale could actually become lower than radial

I expect radial will still dominate for at least another decade or so outside of premium performance focused cars. Radial has been battle-tested and proven. Axial still has a few more years to prove it's reliability in the field. Higher loads and stresses, tighter tolerances could make the axial motors less reliable overall especially at mass market trims. Mercedes is probably over-engineering for reliability and performance on the premium car

Radial is also "good enough" for most applications. The efficiency, form factor and weight improvements of axial is nice, but they aren't the limiting factor. Radial is already highly efficient, reasonably light and small. The real level for weight is the battery

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#73

Post by aetherspawn »

krn1p4n1c wrote: post #66

I would guess that hydro and other generator forms would benefit from this design as well? Personally I’d love to see this make it’s way into power tools and CNC motors.

Probably not. A huge disadvantage of axial flux motors is they have a large number of poles, which means that they get less efficient at high speed because they require say 5x as much switching.

This makes them kind of unsuitable for power generation and really high power motors (despite their power density) where the main way you get more power is just to spin really fast.

The other disadvantage is they have such a low amount of material in them, that the stator overheats really easily. And the topology of the motor makes it really difficult to get the heat out efficiently, which again limits their maximum power.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#74

Post by bayindirh »

longitudinal93 wrote: post #68
arethuza wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like a 600 HP 1.5l supercharged V16 - doesn't even need to be in a car, mainly just to listen to! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Racing_Motors_V16

Then all you need is a good recording and decent headphones

A good recording and a sound system which can move the exact amount of air that the engine has moved, to be precise.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#75

Post by throwaway132448 »

globular-toast wrote: post #8
throwaway132448 wrote: post #3

Ah, another fantastic British innovator (YASA) having to realize its potential (and ultimately the downstream economic benefits of commercialisation) abroad. Brought to you by the only country to have a space programme and abandon it.

Did they have to? My impression is British companies sell out as soon as they can these days. Is this something that could be changed with policy? Does Germany incentivise running companies more? Or is this cultural, e.g. British people are more risk averse?

It’s cultural. It is not difficult to raise a lot of money in the UK. The problem is that the UK (government, investors, employees and employers) got so high on the margins of services and finance in the 90s, that it has never recovered from this all-consuming addiction. Everything else simply attracts no interest comparatively, economic diversification be damned.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#76

Post by fancyfredbot »

throwaway132448 wrote: post #3

Ah, another fantastic British innovator (YASA) having to realize its potential (and ultimately the downstream economic benefits of commercialisation) abroad. Brought to you by the only country to have a space programme and abandon it.

Britain didn't abandon it's space programme. It abandoned a launch rocket programme though. That was over 50 years ago and the rocket was less capable and more expensive than alternatives at the time.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#77

Post by altairprime »

AndrewDucker wrote: post #4

It would have been awesome if that article had, at any point, explained what an electric axial flux motor was, and why anyone might want one.

Consider the thousand or so comments at https://hn.algolia.com/?q=axial for more details. While it’s no substitute for a well-written comprehensive article, it certainly is a smorgasbord of answers.

Re: Mercedes‑Benz starts large‑scale production of electric axial flux motor

#79

Post by mytailorisrich »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #33
mytailorisrich wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK is by far the best country to raise venture capital in Europe, and is the third largest market in the world after the US and China...

> UK is by far the best country to raise venture capital in Europe For late stage? Continental Europe has its banks and industrial policy. America and China have their deep pockets. Scaling out of the UK is incredibly hard, doubly so post Brexit, that’s why they sell early.

I think continental Europe has nothing on the UK when it comes to banks and financial markets. The UK has the deepest pockets in Europe because it is a hub for global capital. Brexit does not seem to have made a difference:

https://www.uktech.news/funding/late-stage-funding-surges-as...

Regarding AI (since that's the hot thing of the day), but IMO indicator of where the money is:

https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/library/funding-ai-...

[In the EU] "Most late-stage capital comes from the US and UK."

Now, regarding YASA, it isn't surprising that they were acquired by a car manufacturer. And, well, the UK has virtually none at this point...

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