Rich Sutton on AI creativity and discovery
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Re: Rich Sutton on AI creativity and discovery
#2[flagged]
Re: Rich Sutton on AI creativity and discovery
#3[flagged]
Re: Rich Sutton on AI creativity and discovery
#4I don't quite follow his point. Is it: a) that we need a new foundational algorithm that integrates a goal (one with "taste") directly into the training step, or b) that we need to point trained models towards goals as they iterate?
If it's a), he doesn't propose such an algorithm, and I don't know how you'd do it at such a low level because how do you quantify abstract goals? Did he suggest such an algorithm and I misread? If it's b), that already exists, see AlphaEvolve or any number of things he said. Or, to be a bit of a smart-ass, just type /goal and let it rip ...
I also think he's just categorically wrong that LLMs cannot do good and novel things. And if it can, then you could just say "well that's not novel, that's derivative". A simple example, if I make up a programming language with an LLM and it works well for my purposes, then is that not novel and good? I mean, is any language other than FORTRAN not novel?
Everything is derivative and you can put an LLM in a loop to evaluate LLMs trying things. I must be misunderstanding because he's too smart to be this wrong.
Re: Rich Sutton on AI creativity and discovery
#5[dead]
Re: Rich Sutton on AI creativity and discovery
#6I don't quite follow his point. Is it: a) that we need a new foundational algorithm that integrates a goal (one with "taste") directly into the training step, or b) that we need to point trained models towards goals as they iterate? If it's a), he doesn't propose such an algorithm, and I don't know how you'd do it at such a low level because how do you quantify abstract goals? Did he suggest such an algorithm and I m…
LLMs possess the map but are unable to discern fertile from barren ground. For instance: how does Anthropic's new model generate promising 'medications'? Because, beyond the knowledge embedded within the model, it has assimilated AlphaFold's reasoning paradigm. By itself, Claude would be incapable of engineering a protein analysis method
Re: Rich Sutton on AI creativity and discovery
#7I don't quite follow his point. Is it: a) that we need a new foundational algorithm that integrates a goal (one with "taste") directly into the training step, or b) that we need to point trained models towards goals as they iterate? If it's a), he doesn't propose such an algorithm, and I don't know how you'd do it at such a low level because how do you quantify abstract goals? Did he suggest such an algorithm and I m…
Idk one of his yt video presentations was saying we're entering a "designer" age of the universe
https://youtu.be/ThFq87Rp21s?si=SrKj72_X8bjnB6ED
Around 35min mark
Re: Rich Sutton on AI creativity and discovery
#8Creativity = variation + evaluation + selection. It's not bad, though every example he gives has a built-in scoring function haha.
Best thing about nerds is watching them try and build frameworks and formulas for the creative act. Like a metronome trying to compose a symphony.
Re: Rich Sutton on AI creativity and discovery
#9I don't quite follow his point. Is it: a) that we need a new foundational algorithm that integrates a goal (one with "taste") directly into the training step, or b) that we need to point trained models towards goals as they iterate? If it's a), he doesn't propose such an algorithm, and I don't know how you'd do it at such a low level because how do you quantify abstract goals? Did he suggest such an algorithm and I m…
No, I think I he’s saying that we have that, and we should use it more.
AlphaGo uses discovery when it evaluates potential moves and iterates.
Claude Code uses discovery when it generates a script and the evaluates whether it works or not.
He’s saying we need to allow ai systems to do the evaluation and iteration themselves for science and engineering the same way we do for code.
Basically, harness engineering for engineering.
Re: Rich Sutton on AI creativity and discovery
#10"We have many AI systems which can give us more. ... and Claude-Code, which have brought true advances in science, mathematics, and programming."
That contradiction kind of says he doesn't know what he's talking about.