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If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

jonready.com

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Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#251

Post by canada_dry »

torben-friis wrote: post #37

They have a silent nerfing system for their models and say so openly. The obvious question is how much it is being used already. Competitor companies being nerfed? Non Americans getting worse code? Punishing and rewarding users to maximize engagement, like online games do affecting victories through matchmaking?

I re-subscribed to GPT's "PLUS" plan after ditching Anthropic for lack luster results... one of the first coding tasks I gave it resulted in a progress/thinking message that said something to the effect of (it vanished too quickly to get a screen shot unfortunately):

                   Evaluating client value
It took me aback. Note: the code had nothing to do with "client value".

Behind the scenes it is not hard to imagine OpenAI, Anthropic, et al simply minimizing processing for clients - like me - that are hopping from one to another to chase the just released SOTA model.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#254

Post by Ferret7446 »

SwellJoe wrote: post #77

The moat looks deep today but it's going to become more shallow every year. Training a new model from scratch takes serious resources. Post-training/fine-tuning an existing model, dramatically less. The knowledge for the process was esoteric two years ago, now you can ask a current model (one of several) to walk you through it, while building the tools to do it as you go. Several of my recent weekend projects have be…

The moat is not the model, it's the harness. I wager that's one of the main reasons why Google made Antigravity closed source.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#255

Post by redox99 »

hedora wrote: post #85
SwellJoe wrote: post #77

The moat looks deep today but it's going to become more shallow every year. Training a new model from scratch takes serious resources. Post-training/fine-tuning an existing model, dramatically less. The knowledge for the process was esoteric two years ago, now you can ask a current model (one of several) to walk you through it, while building the tools to do it as you go. Several of my recent weekend projects have be…

What moat? There are multiple companies providing pareto-optimal frontier models, and it takes O(10) people to build one of these things. The rest is capital intensive, and the price will approach the cost of production over time. Thinking this is a profitable endeavor is equivalent to claiming coal plants have good margins because boilers are expensive.

O(10) people?

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#256

Post by code_duck »

This is the way tech companies have been dealing with perceived abuse for years, at least a decade. Instead of telling you what a problem is, they'll just say "something went wrong". Theoretically this is to prevent bad actors from learning the bounds and how to abuse a system. It is similar to shadow banning.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#257

Post by gck1 »

windexh8er wrote: post #79
platinumrad wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is infinitely valuable.

Especially when you can actively choose to not use Anthropic. They think they have a moat from all of the IP they've stolen. Just wait until there's nothing more to steal and the laws eventually turn against them. And let's be honest about these companies. It is very much Dario and Sam and Sundar and Mark and Peter and Elon and... These are the choices they are making and hopefully they are held accountable both lega…

> Especially when you can actively choose to not use Anthropic

I think what all western AI labs want is to take away that ability from you.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#258

Post by maxbond »

dimitri-vs wrote: post #237
atleastoptimal wrote: post #57

There is a possibility this may not end at simply nerfing the model. The idea of manipulating the behavior of a model depending on the prompt given to it can extend to 1. Detecting if employees from competing companies are using it and sabatoge their work, even not LLM-training related 2. Direct users to outcomes that would justify higher compute spend. Deliberately coding a project to 95% completion but designed to…

Anthropic: were commiting to being ad free. Also Anthropic: if you use our models in any way that might negatively impact our revenue we'll sabotage you. Can I pick the ads please?

The ad-supported alternative suffers from the same principle-agent problem. What's to stop an ad-supported model from declining to refer you to products that would be better for your use case but who's vendors haven't paid the model's provider?

Ultimately if you can't trust the provider it is game over and you don't have an alternative other than to move to self hosted and open source solutions.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#259

Post by matheusmoreira »

reissbaker wrote: post #248
sometimelurker wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like they've repeatedly pursued). source?

Many, many, many public policy positions; for a clear-cut example, they eventually supported SB 1047 [1] which would have banned open-sourcing any model trained with over 10^26 FLOPS (i.e. what Anthropic reportedly used to train Mythos). Their "Responsible Scaling Policy" [2] — a set of policy proposals that includes recommendations for government regulation — specifically calls out requiring "third-party controls" o…

Deeply concerning. How likely is this to become reality?

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#260

Post by matheusmoreira »

ai_fry_ur_brain wrote: post #230
reissbaker wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's becoming extremely important to support open-source AI, especially legally. Anthropic is willing to go totalitarian this quickly; imagine how much worse they'd be willing to do with government-granted monopolies that ban open-source competition (like they've repeatedly pursued). It's a little shocking and gruesome how quickly they're willing to tip their hand. They want to replace all software engineering with t…

Open source doesnt matter if you still need to make 100k year to have your own mediocre model. There is no magic compression. There is no magic post training. Your phone or laptop will never do what you think its going to be able to. There are limits to what consumer hardware will ever be able to run, in its current form. Open source isn't going to save us if they gatekeep access to hardware, which idk if you've been…

> Technological serfdom is coming if they get their way.

I'm deeply concerned about this. We're seeing all these moves towards remote attestation, identity verification. Now we're being literally priced out of hardware...

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