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If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

jonready.com

241–250 of 534 posts

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#241
Wait, so to get this straight, Anthropic knows:

1) LLMs are non-deterministic

2) This class of models has a particular tendency to "misbehave"

3) Their classifiers have a high rate of false positives

4) Millions of people give these models access to their machines

And they still decided to specifically train this model to sabotage work if it thinks the work may be in competition with Anthropic?

I think this has a name. I think it may be called malware.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#242
post #241

Wait, so to get this straight, Anthropic knows: 1) LLMs are non-deterministic 2) This class of models has a particular tendency to "misbehave" 3) Their classifiers have a high rate of false positives 4) Millions of people give these models access to their machines And they still decided to specifically train this model to sabotage work if it thinks the work may be in competition with Anthropic? I think this has a nam…

... that you pay to install on your machine.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#243

It is very difficult to see this move as anything other than Anthropic pulling the ladder up behind itself. They can dress it up in "safety" all they want, I find it hard to interpret this in a charitable way. This reminds me of how dark-pattern common wisdom in Web 1.0 website development was to ban external links. Then how social apps prevented the export of data and actively worked to nerf significant interoperabi…

They believe they're going to eventually develop AI that's capable of recursive self improvement into world-redefining super-intelligence. I wouldn't expect someone in that position to risk giving away their lead. I expect we're going to see more of the top labs selectively holding back their best stuff.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#245

I spend a lot of time telling Opus 4.8 to search for security bugs in the code it wrote, and it spends a lot of time finding them, and then fixing them. Fable wont let me fix the security issues that Opus 4.8 created.

Yeah, this breaks the notion that the technical debt you're accumulating with today's AI can be fixed by tommorrow's AI. Tomorrows AI may either refuse, or silently mess up your code because Anthropic don't like what you're working on.

Yup, you always have to consider the modus operandi of the tech industry when listening to the utopian dream that very same industry is espousing.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#246
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that option is still available to everyone to be clear, I'm not saying what they did in scraping to learn was ethical. It wasn't. But I just don't see it as pulling the ladder. The ladder is still there.

I don’t know if you’ve tried to scrape or programmatically download a lot of websites recently! It’s not possible to repeat their data collection process anymore.

maybe i'm just pedantic. it's possible you could only build models like these from scratch until a few years ago for that reason, but isn't that an (illegal,unethical) early mover advantage?

to me ladder pulling would be:

- web scraping for model training becomes illegal, with heavy punitive penalties

- training models above a certain compute threshold requires government licensing

- expensive third-party audits are required before deploying models above a capability threshold

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#247

> Startups train embedding models. They build rerankers. They finetune and host small llms. Isn’t that prohibited without permission from Anthropic: https://support.claude.com/en/articles/12326764-can-i-use-my...

This isn't about training on the output tokens from Anthropic models, it's just about using their models to build things like pretraining pipelines, etc. Even if you train on your own data.

From the phrasing, it might as well be that any ML or infra. related work that even incidentally looks like it could be used to train LLMs may trigger a silent nerf.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's becoming extremely important to support open-source AI, especially legally. Anthropic is willing to go totalitarian this quickly; imagine how much worse they'd be willing to do with government-granted monopolies that ban open-source competition (like they've repeatedly pursued). It's a little shocking and gruesome how quickly they're willing to tip their hand. They want to replace all software engineering with t…

> like they've repeatedly pursued). source?

Many, many, many public policy positions; for a clear-cut example, they eventually supported SB 1047 [1] which would have banned open-sourcing any model trained with over 10^26 FLOPS (i.e. what Anthropic reportedly used to train Mythos). Their "Responsible Scaling Policy" [2] — a set of policy proposals that includes recommendations for government regulation — specifically calls out requiring "third-party controls" on model weights to prevent access; for developers to prevent "modification of models" such as fine-tuning (obviously impossible for open-source or open-weight models); prevent usage of model weights in "Automated R&D in key domains" which they specifically call out AI development as a key domain (again, obviously impossible for open-source); etc etc.

They want to ban open-source AI and are not shy about it.

1: https://campustechnology.com/articles/2024/08/26/anthropic-a...

2: https://www.anthropic.com/responsible-scaling-policy

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's becoming extremely important to support open-source AI, especially legally. Anthropic is willing to go totalitarian this quickly; imagine how much worse they'd be willing to do with government-granted monopolies that ban open-source competition (like they've repeatedly pursued). It's a little shocking and gruesome how quickly they're willing to tip their hand. They want to replace all software engineering with t…

Open source doesnt matter if you still need to make 100k year to have your own mediocre model. There is no magic compression. There is no magic post training. Your phone or laptop will never do what you think its going to be able to. There are limits to what consumer hardware will ever be able to run, in its current form. Open source isn't going to save us if they gatekeep access to hardware, which idk if you've been…

You don't need to be able to self-host it. It's fine to pay someone else for it. If it's open-source, competition will ensure inference providers support it well enough, and if an open-source provider is dumb enough to nerf their model for (useful) coding tasks, there's plenty of incentive for inference companies to do some lightweight finetuning to restore the capability.
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