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B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

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Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#51

Post by belorn »

pilif wrote: post #2

As far as I understood the article, this is about a second download of a book purchased some time ago. I think in this case, it's not as clear-cut as the article makes it out to be. To stay with the real world analogy: while the article is right that nothing will glue the pages of a physical book together once the credit card expires, it is also the case that purchasing a book once doesn't entitle you to go to the bo…

If the e-book is being sold in the same way and marketed as a physical book but on a digital media, always accessible, they yes, we can indeed demand the right to have access to it.

If however, in the very unlikely scenario, they market those books as temporarily rented products, and clearly informed the consumer of this fact (to the point of informed decision, by legal definition), then the customer can only expect what was informed at the time of purchase.

By the sound of the article, this is not the case however. If the company had been located in the EU, they would be in violation of a number of consumer protection laws.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#52

Post by belorn »

Elepsis wrote: post #41
galadriel wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One is a federal felony, other is a fair use. EDIT: Specifically, it is against the law to break DRM (unless for few cases outlined by library of Congress), and the law as written makes no exceptions for fair use. The courts have also held in positive that it was Congress intend to make breaking DRM a crime even if there is a fair use case.

... Except that's wrong. It's not fair use to photocopy an entire book and it never has been. Let's not lose sight of the actual laws in our blind rage against DRM.

Making private complete copies is legal in most countries, in particular European ones. Private copying levy stems from this concept. Photocopy an entire book for private use only is thus perfectly legal if you are in one of those countries which allows it.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#55

Post by jlgreco »

edanm wrote: post #34
jlgreco wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I am mistaken, that would/could be legally considered circumventing DRM, and would therefore be technically illegal despite fair use (which would permit you to photocopy the print book legally).

I'm not sure there's a difference in photocopying an entire book and doing the same to a DRM book. Do you know specifically that there is a difference?

The DMCA kicks in if there is DRM involved.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#56

Post by prof_hobart »

pilif wrote: post #8
sami36 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...then we can't rurn around and demand that it also isn't and that we should have right to infinitely ask for additional copies - however cheap it might be to create them. oh Yes, We can. The reason we're entitled to it is the fact that DRM stands in the way of us customers backing up our purchases. If my eBook were in a format devoid of DRM & I could back it up by saving it in Droppbox or my external hard drive,…

To stay with the real world analogy: you also can't back up your book. You have that one copy and once it breaks, you are out of luck and have to buy a new one. I compare the ebook readers as a physical object with the books (also physical objects). If I can read books on that device even when my credit card has expired or other things have disabled my account, then IMHO the parity to the real world exists: I have th…

>you are out of luck and have to buy a new one.

Yes. A new version of that book, not a new version of every book in your library.

>Of course, by centralizing many books to one physical object, you risk losing much more content as you lose that physical object. But the advantage is that, in case it breaks, it can be repaired (which might be impossible with a physical book)

Which is irrelevant if the company doesn't allow you to redownload the data, as in this story.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#57

Post by aneth4 »

javajosh wrote: post #6

The simple fact is that the ebook experience sucks all the way around. I gave it a shot with the Nook Touch, and I really dislike it, even if DRM wasn't an issue. Over the years my subconcious has grown used to indexing the story according to certain physical properties of the book. "Oh yes, that happend about a cm in on the right side page, like halfway down" is something I might think- but this coordinate system do…

You might try an e-ink device. That will solve your problems of fiddling and pixelation. I find them far more comfortable to read as well.

Regarding your memory system, this is a matter of changing habits.

As for the nostalgia, I could tell you I miss my CRT and the clack of a first generation remote, or the times when video content was limited so everyone watched the same thing, of when folks could design with their hands and wrote letters. Times change.

I too love physical books, but I won't buy them these days because the convenience of ebooks is just too great.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#58

Post by jlgreco »

Elepsis wrote: post #41
galadriel wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One is a federal felony, other is a fair use. EDIT: Specifically, it is against the law to break DRM (unless for few cases outlined by library of Congress), and the law as written makes no exceptions for fair use. The courts have also held in positive that it was Congress intend to make breaking DRM a crime even if there is a fair use case.

... Except that's wrong. It's not fair use to photocopy an entire book and it never has been. Let's not lose sight of the actual laws in our blind rage against DRM.

Copy a physical book and you have infringed on its copyright. Copy an ebook with DRM and you have done the same, AND run afoul of the DMCA.

Lets not lose sight of the fact that DRM does present a different situation by pulling additional laws into play, in our blind defense of DRM.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#59

Post by aneth4 »

vertis wrote: post #13

I would blame this on a badly designed system rather than deliberate attempt at DRM. i.e. Product owner goes to dev: We want to make sure that customers always have a valid credit card on file so that when they go to purchase it doesn't distract them (etc, etc). Dev makes it so that you can't do anything with the website until you've updated your expired credit card.

I agree and it created a shitty situation. But I have to believe B&N did not intentionally institute this policy and will quickly change it.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#60

Post by [deleted] »

edanm wrote: post #34
jlgreco wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I am mistaken, that would/could be legally considered circumventing DRM, and would therefore be technically illegal despite fair use (which would permit you to photocopy the print book legally).

I'm not sure there's a difference in photocopying an entire book and doing the same to a DRM book. Do you know specifically that there is a difference?

[deleted]
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