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If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

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Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#161

Post by SwellJoe »

theLiminator wrote: post #151
SwellJoe wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we agree? What moat? You answered yourself: "capital intensive" But, history says the supercomputer of today will fit in your pocket in a few years. They've bought up all the RAM and GPUs, which pushes the capital requirements upward for everyone else. But, they can't corner the market forever, there are too many competing interests. AMD and Intel keep making new GPUs and APUs. The memory makers can't just se…

> But, history says the supercomputer of today will fit in your pocket in a few years. I don't think this will be true in the same time span anymore. Each miniaturization is costing more and more money. Perhaps they'll come up with exotic fundamental improvements, but I don't think the rate of improvement of compute/watt will match the previous decades.

Yeah, that's probably true, but we're also seeing that there's still tons of inefficiencies in how LLMs are being run. Seems like every couple months there's some new technique to squeeze more performance out of less hardware. KV caching improvements, fast attention, speculative decoding, dynamic quantization, quantization aware training, etc.

That said, I recently replaced my five year old self-built PC (with a top-of-the-line desktop CPU, chipset, memory, and GPU of the time) with a new everything-the-best build, and while it's clear we're not keeping up with Moore's Law anymore, it's still 4-5 times faster for compute-intensive stuff, especially parallelizable tasks. We're still getting faster/cheaper. So, the time scale is maybe ten years rather than five.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#162

Post by thot_experiment »

extr wrote: post #129
thot_experiment wrote: post #11

It's a SaaS, when in the history of SaaS has it ever been a good idea to trust that the company won't ruin the product under you?

Really funny to describe OpenAI/Anthropic as a "SaaS"

Yeah, care to elaborate? I'm not seeing the joke.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#163

Post by JoshTriplett »

hedora wrote: post #80
variety8675 wrote: post #7

It is absolutely fine to distill the IP of everyone else, but you'd be violating the TOS to distill ours :)

Yep. Demand open source approve licenses for LLM weights. The Chinese apache 2.0 models might be censored, but at least they can’t sue you in the US for finding the censorship line. OTOH, the US models are definitely censored, per TFA, and they’re making vague legal threats against anyone that encounters the censored edge of the model.

> Demand open source approve licenses for LLM weights.

How would you solve, for instance, the problem in which AI models are capable of helping the average person build viruses (computer or human)?

"YOLO" is not a reasonable answer here.

I am a massive advocate of Open Source, and have been for 25+ years. These things should not exist, open or otherwise.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#164

Post by theturtletalks »

SwellJoe wrote: post #130
nextaccountic wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the base models released to the public are not censored. censorship happens with another model, that isn't released

I asked self-hosted DeepSeek V4 Flash to write a poem about the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre. Here's what it said: "I'm sorry, but I cannot write a poem about that topic. I don't have any information about the events you're describing, and I'm not able to create content on that subject. Is there something else I can help you with?" It'll happily write a poem about other incidents of state violence (not…

Yes they used to censor it using the system prompt but more than a year ago, they started baking in the censorship into the model.

Generally, you can find abliterated versions for a lot of the censored models like this one for DS4 Flash[0]

0. https://huggingface.co/huihui-ai/Huihui-DeepSeek-V4-Flash-ab...

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#165

Post by typ »

variety8675 wrote: post #7

It is absolutely fine to distill the IP of everyone else, but you'd be violating the TOS to distill ours :)

It takes billions of investments for infrastructure, and a high-paying, top-notch team for R&D and operations. Not just a bunch of torrents of pirated books. Let alone the best model developers are not necessarily the ones pirating the most.

It's funny that Google, Meta, TikTok, OnlyFans, PornHub, and many other lucrative businesses never open-source their core business software, and people just don't bother about it with that moral standard, simply because we don't need to pay for the service (paid by ads, actually). To me, that is the hypocrisy.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#167

Post by HoldOnAMinute »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #163
hedora wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Demand open source approve licenses for LLM weights. The Chinese apache 2.0 models might be censored, but at least they can’t sue you in the US for finding the censorship line. OTOH, the US models are definitely censored, per TFA, and they’re making vague legal threats against anyone that encounters the censored edge of the model.

> Demand open source approve licenses for LLM weights. How would you solve, for instance, the problem in which AI models are capable of helping the average person build viruses (computer or human)? "YOLO" is not a reasonable answer here. I am a massive advocate of Open Source, and have been for 25+ years. These things should not exist, open or otherwise.

Building a virus, on your own network, probably isn't a crime.

We already have all kinds of laws to catch and punish people when they cause harm.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#168

Post by teaearlgraycold »

zoogeny wrote: post #138

It is very difficult to see this move as anything other than Anthropic pulling the ladder up behind itself. They can dress it up in "safety" all they want, I find it hard to interpret this in a charitable way. This reminds me of how dark-pattern common wisdom in Web 1.0 website development was to ban external links. Then how social apps prevented the export of data and actively worked to nerf significant interoperabi…

It turns out the most dangerous thing is competition.

Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know

#169

Post by HoldOnAMinute »

david_shi wrote: post #50
variety8675 wrote: post #7

It is absolutely fine to distill the IP of everyone else, but you'd be violating the TOS to distill ours :)

Is there a technical term for this phenomenon? Ladder pulling? https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/safety-secu...

"Venture Capital"
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