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Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

reuters.com

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Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#581

Post by ChrisClark »

viktorcode wrote: post #372
burnte wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not as if Apple doesn't have the money to dedicate a team to matching the EU's requirements on a deadline. They just choose not to. Exactly, that's actually why I LIKE this decision so much. I'm not on Apple's side, but I REALLY like the idea that a company just says, "Fine, we'll comply by not even offering this product." It's a perfectly legitimate choice, and it FORCED Apple to evaluate the pros and cons. I…

You should remember that according to a court testimony the whole European area (which goes beyond EU) gives Apple 7% of their revenue, whereas breaking DMCA may incur penalties of ups to 10% of global turnover. Those numbers make withholding "risky" products a no-brainer strategy. Also, those numbers put a hard limit of how much Apple will want reevaluate their general strategy of tightly integrated first-party soft…

Using an old AI to comment? What does the DMCA have to do with it?

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#582

Post by duskwuff »

krzyk wrote: post #472
duskwuff wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DMCA provides some rather important protection for service providers (including small-scale services like web forums, not just ISPs and web hosts) - it makes them not liable for copyright violations by their users, so long as they take down infringing content upon receipt of a DMCA notice. But I agree, that's probably not what OP meant.

Doesn't "DMCA", make, well, the DMCA notice a thing?

Precisely. What it replaced was rightsholders suing web services (like a forum or web host) as a first resort, which was a much more cumbersome and painful process for all parties.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#583

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

customguy wrote: post #559
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

https://block81.com/blog/why-most-websites-dont-actually-nee... That's been true from day one. So the question is, did you come up with the FUD yourself, or did you believe someone else?

[flagged]

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#584

Post by Gigachad »

aucisson_masque wrote: post #573
jandrewrogers wrote: post #79

I understand Apple's position on this one. This is essentially a backdoor into all of your data. It is also a very useful feature. The EU regulators are disallowing guardrails without which this backdoor will be used to strip-mine people's personal data. The privacy implications are not legible to most people. If I was more cynical I would suggest that this is being used as an end-run around encryption, since the enc…

We have been able to choose our default app for 'assistant' on Android for a decade. It's fine. You can even revoke permissions if you want to. And guess what ? Because you're allowed to choose something else than Siri, it doesn't mean you have to. You can still use Siri if you think it's better for your privacy.

What level of system access do they have? You can use 3rd party AI apps on iOS, they just can’t read app data or make actions on the system outside of the APIs that currently exist.

The new Siri has much deeper access to personal data and absolutely can not be trusted being siphoned off to a 3rd party server.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#585

Post by musictubes »

wrxd wrote: post #462
yandie wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appples architecture prevents them from seeing customers data (see Private Cloud Compute documentation). Data that Gemini Assistant (not referring to the distilled version Apple uses) see goes straight to Google. Big difference here. Weird to say it but the only assistant with any guarantee for privacy by design is Siri at the moment.

What prevents to have an API that requires something akin Private Cloud Compute from other providers? Technically makes the implementation of other providers harder but in principle it should be possible, no?

Apple suggested that but was turned down.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#586

Post by tzs »

yxhuvud wrote: post #470
zdragnar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the options are "launch in the rest of the world quickly and get to the EU later" or "launch everywhere at once years after the competition" PMs and execs are going to choose the latter every time.

The third option is: launch in a way that is compliant with EU rules everywhere. Except they don't want that as they want to retain their outsized market power.

That's not a third option. It is the second option they listed.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#587

Post by cogogo »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #561
cogogo wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have to say I love the drink cap thing. It makes a lot of sense. The caps wind up everywhere so the regulation probably/most likely does some good (have not seen any data so who knows). But once you get used to it you appreciate not being able to lose the cap. Straws seem pretty useless to me in general so why not avoid plastic? but that is probably a me problem. Plastic on fruit is annoying as hell but it is not a m…

If you don't personally find straws useful that's fine but why should something like that be dictated for everyone else let alone at such a high level of government and without a direct vote by the citizens? To make matters worse the expected environmental impact is miniscule and the entire thing is predicated on a popular misconception that gained virality. It's a perfect example of the government failing to functio…

Is that really a perfect example of a government failing to function well? In what country government does every action require a direct vote? Representative democracy is by definition imperfect.

Bet you can think of a better “perfect” example of a government failing to function well. It all depends on which government you are referring to but the best example to me would probably be a government needlessly bombing another country. Not a ban on plastic straws.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#588

Post by musictubes »

afavour wrote: post #2

Apple said "hey, can we not comply with the law", the EU said no, so it didn't launch. Seems pretty straightforward to me. I can see why Apple might want to request an 18 month exemption, there's clearly extra work required to comply with EU regulations. But on the other hand it also feels like a straightforward play for consumer sympathy: let them get used to using it every day for 18 months, then pressure the EU to…

I’m glad this is at the top of the comment chain. I’m also angry with myself that I kept reading other comments. As you say, the current situation makes sense. Apple made something they way they want, the EU says it doesn’t pass muster with their laws and so Apple doesn’t release it in the EU.

Siri AI is just one of many AI products that aren’t released in the EU. If people are mostly happy with that then I guess things will continue as is. I do find it a little odd that so many people are championing the DMA as a beacon of consumer choice when it seems to be limiting what consumers have access to.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#589

Post by abigail95 »

microtonal wrote: post #320
abigail95 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phrasing it like that that without mentioning the $40B penalty if Apple releases the feature today feels a bit off to me.

Nobody in the EU would have been upset if they said: we cannot offer this in the EU because we want to shut out competitors from providing alternative LLMs and this is not allowed in Europe. Fine. I don't care. Many Europeans are upset that Apple blames Europe that they cannot implement this because it would sacrifice privacy. (Which is kind of ironic, because the EU has nearly the best privacy protection worldwide.)…

I think that's exactly what people would be upset about as it was the impetus for the DMA in the first place.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#590

Post by tzs »

inetknght wrote: post #281
dd8601fn wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Functionally the EU is requiring that Apple dramatically RELAX their privacy and security postures. I’m sure Apple doesn’t want to cave and give OpenAI free access to the spotlight semantic db, the ability see what’s on your screen at all times, etc.

> Functionally the EU is requiring that Apple dramatically RELAX their privacy and security postures. No. Interoperability doesn't require Apple relax their privacy and security postures. It could instead require third parties to improve theirs.

Would that be allowed under EU law?

Apple is building a system that is more private than EU law requires. If they tell say Facebook that Facebook can integrate in but first must meet the same more than is legally required standard Apple is aiming for wouldn't that be anti-competitive?

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