Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 735 posts

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#571

Post by ebbi »

fundatus wrote: post #421
GeekyBear wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rather than opening their platform a tiny bit Handing full access to the data on a user's device over to a company with the scruples of somebody like Facebook is a privacy nightmare, not "opening their platform a tiny bit".

Well, let that be my concern. Why should I trust Apple more than let's say Proton?

Because when you open it to Proton, you have to open it to Meta. And when Meta does Meta things, the first thing the average user will complain to is Apple - "didn't you advertise to me about privacy?!"

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#572

Post by wmf »

flumpcakes wrote: post #132
jandrewrogers wrote: post #79

I understand Apple's position on this one. This is essentially a backdoor into all of your data. It is also a very useful feature. The EU regulators are disallowing guardrails without which this backdoor will be used to strip-mine people's personal data. The privacy implications are not legible to most people. If I was more cynical I would suggest that this is being used as an end-run around encryption, since the enc…

iPhones have pretty good privacy controls. I don’t see how they can’t extend those to cover AI apps. I imagine the settings menu will get bonkers though. User education about apps slurping up all your data is needed regardless. People just trust apple with their talk of private cloud computing.

It would either lead to Vista-style constant UAC prompts or having to give blanket access upfront (which would be abused).

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#573

Post by aucisson_masque »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #79

I understand Apple's position on this one. This is essentially a backdoor into all of your data. It is also a very useful feature. The EU regulators are disallowing guardrails without which this backdoor will be used to strip-mine people's personal data. The privacy implications are not legible to most people. If I was more cynical I would suggest that this is being used as an end-run around encryption, since the enc…

We have been able to choose our default app for 'assistant' on Android for a decade. It's fine. You can even revoke permissions if you want to.

And guess what ? Because you're allowed to choose something else than Siri, it doesn't mean you have to. You can still use Siri if you think it's better for your privacy.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#574

Post by wmf »

viktorcode wrote: post #512
fundatus wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DMCA is the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, a US law. DMA is the Digital Markets Act, a EU law. It is in fact an antitrust law. It basically argues (correctly in my opinion) that Apple and other companies have created new markets inside of their products. And in those markets they exert total control, including charging developers extortionate fees, forcing them to use their subpar and expensive payment systems or…

Sorry, my mistake. DMA. However, it runs counter to the definition of antitrust law, that is the law that applies to the trust or a monopoly, an entity that controls the market. DMA instead applies to the companies of certain size, regardless whether they have market control or not.

It's a matter of interpretation. From the DMA's perspective, the iPhone is a market and thus Apple has a monopoly on that market. Likewise they consider MS to have monopoly control of the Windows market.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#575

Post by koyote »

mocamoca wrote: post #556
sneak wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want more companies to not get exemptions and thus not offer law-breaking products. I LIKE that the government is saying, "fix it or don't bring it here" and Apple just has to live with it. The idea that there is such a thing as "law-breaking products" when consumers ACTIVELY CHOOSE TO SPEND THEIR MONEY ON THEM is insane to me. This is authoritarian nonsense. It is not the state's place to tell people what they s…

That is quite a libertarian point of view, and Europeans tend to disagree with it. The most extreme example could be the legislation on weapons. A less extreme example could be legislation on food additives or PFAS.

The most extreme example would be child prostitution or child porn, in my opinion. But I guess it would be authoritarian to deny people from purchasing such services/items???

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#576

Post by jwitthuhn »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #79

I understand Apple's position on this one. This is essentially a backdoor into all of your data. It is also a very useful feature. The EU regulators are disallowing guardrails without which this backdoor will be used to strip-mine people's personal data. The privacy implications are not legible to most people. If I was more cynical I would suggest that this is being used as an end-run around encryption, since the enc…

It is not a backdoor if I authorize some other app to use that data, it is a front door.

Apple thinks users should not be able to make the decision about who can access their data. It is not more complicated that that.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#577

Post by x0x0 »

schubidubiduba wrote: post #248
macintux wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A huge part of Apple’s marketing, whether you believe them or not, is that they try to protect your privacy. The smartphone is probably the most sensitive device most people own. It knows your location always. It has your banking apps. Your password manager. Your instant messages, and social media chats, it knows whether you’re walking, or driving, or talking on the phone, and to whom. Once Apple allows any other ven…

All of that happens only if the user chooses to do it though. Anybody is free to stay in the caged Apple garden. The EU just wants them to leave the door unlocked.

That's flatly not true. imessage interop means not just the person who installs the other app, but the data of everyone with whom they message loses the security/privacy guarantees created by imessage and Apple as a corp. Including massive resources pointed at securing the app itself.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad idea from a competition point of view, but good ideas can be discussed w/ an honest view of the quite real downsides.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#578

Post by Gigachad »

jwitthuhn wrote: post #576
jandrewrogers wrote: post #79

I understand Apple's position on this one. This is essentially a backdoor into all of your data. It is also a very useful feature. The EU regulators are disallowing guardrails without which this backdoor will be used to strip-mine people's personal data. The privacy implications are not legible to most people. If I was more cynical I would suggest that this is being used as an end-run around encryption, since the enc…

It is not a backdoor if I authorize some other app to use that data, it is a front door. Apple thinks users should not be able to make the decision about who can access their data. It is not more complicated that that.

It’s a back door around normal app sandboxing and permissions systems. The security design of iOS was not meant to allow 3rd party apps to reach in and read any data from any app.

There is a 100% chance this would be used maliciously immediately. Meta would pressure users to install their meta AI agent, which would then go and read the users DMs, and create profiles on all the users who don’t even use Facebook by reading their data from everyone they talk to who did.

Personally I'd much prefer no siri access to app data than allowing evil companies like Meta/TikTok/Etc this level of access.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#579

Post by 827a »

theshrike79 wrote: post #453
andix wrote: post #253

It's totally fine that Apple doesn't release this feature for EU customers. If they think they can still sell enough phones it's also fine I guess. What's not fine, is to blame the EU for the missing feature. It's damaging their brand and damaging their reputation. Just think about if Porsche would make a press release and calling the US tariffs "un-American". Wouldn't be perceived well either.

You know what would also damage their brand? Fancois Normal installing a 3rd party AI service which turns out to have zero security and actively just harvesting private data. Tell me which company in your opinion would be in the LOUD headlines, Apple or the random 3rd party?

yeah that must be why Apple is so careful about restricting access to the same data when it is synced onto a Mac oh wait they aren't

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#580

Post by Gigachad »

t-sauer wrote: post #409
jandrewrogers wrote: post #79

I understand Apple's position on this one. This is essentially a backdoor into all of your data. It is also a very useful feature. The EU regulators are disallowing guardrails without which this backdoor will be used to strip-mine people's personal data. The privacy implications are not legible to most people. If I was more cynical I would suggest that this is being used as an end-run around encryption, since the enc…

> I understand Apple's position on this one Well then explain me this: There are absolutely no restriction on MacOS where I can give Claude free access to everything. If you are a Mac and iPhone user that essentially gives it access to the exact same data. Why is the data only protect worthy when accessed on the phone directly?

Laptops are a low security environment and already massively compromised. Thats why banks make you authorise transactions by approving them on your phone when you started them on the web.

Apple has been working for a while to secure MacOS but it’s hard without breaking compatibility with old processes.

Post reply on HN