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FCC wants to kill burner phones by forcing telecoms to get all customers' IDs

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Re: FCC wants to kill burner phones by forcing telecoms to get all customers' IDs

#211

Post by hinata08 »

MarkusWandel wrote: post #123
dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #2

This is how it works in Australia, which means it's a pain for tourists as you need to provide a passport for ID and get it activated, as opposed to just grabbing one at an airport kiosk and being ready to go on your way to the taxi or train like most other places.

Somewhat recently, tried to activate a SIM for a guest here in Canada, and while you could fill in anything you want for personal info, the only way to hook up (prepaid) billing was with a Canadian credit card number. Whoops. This was only for a month, so I put in mine and he reimbursed me in cash. Other carriers may still let you buy one-time payment cards for cash at retail; this one didn't.

Having a friend who lends you their credit card so that you pay it off at the end of your trip is such a premium !

Canada isn't the only country in which foreign cards don't work everywhere, and it seems like it's rarely tested

Re: FCC wants to kill burner phones by forcing telecoms to get all customers' IDs

#212

Post by khat »

Ritewut wrote: post #186
everdrive wrote: post #180

And people will keep carrying their phones with them. And keep using them. And keep installing apps. Yes, ideally we'd have laws against government infringement, but the capability to not use your phone is in your hands.

This comment is so divorced from reality. It is very difficult to live life in the modern world without a phone unless you want to go Amish.

Not really. Rural America you don't need a mobile phone. I can go days without ever touching my phone. And if it wasn't for my bank, I wouldn't need it at all. Even then I could just go to the bank but I'm too lazy to do that.

Re: FCC wants to kill burner phones by forcing telecoms to get all customers' IDs

#213

Post by cucumber3732842 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #176
Ajedi32 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes I forgot, they're not "laws" just "rules" that the government will come after you if you break. Silly me.

> they're not "laws" just "rules" that the government will come after you if you break If you break a rule you get fined. If you break a law you can go to jail. (Congress can delegate regulation around crimes to an agency, but the crime generally has to be substantially described by statute.)

>If you break a rule you get fined. If you break a law you can go to jail

That's a distinction without a difference when talking about the kinds of ruinous fines government agencies levy and how equivalently ruinous lawyering up to fight them is.

Most people receiving these fines happily spend a month in prison for six figures because six figures is years of discretionary income to most people.

Re: FCC wants to kill burner phones by forcing telecoms to get all customers' IDs

#214

Post by hinata08 »

willhslade wrote: post #126
MarkusWandel wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat recently, tried to activate a SIM for a guest here in Canada, and while you could fill in anything you want for personal info, the only way to hook up (prepaid) billing was with a Canadian credit card number. Whoops. This was only for a month, so I put in mine and he reimbursed me in cash. Other carriers may still let you buy one-time payment cards for cash at retail; this one didn't.

I think this is where Airalo shines. I've used it while travelling and I think eSIMs, as annoying as they are, are the way.

these "travel sims" are pricey !

You get better deals with local carriers if you actually use the potential of eSIM, which is to be able to switch ! Every other carrier in most parts of the world now supply eSIMs that you can sometimes activate from home before your trip

Canada has Lucky Mobile, central Europe has A1 mobile, France and Portugal have Lycamobile, Italy has Windtre, UK has no service,...

Getting a SIM is typically the thing on which you can save 20$ just by asking a local person

Re: FCC wants to kill burner phones by forcing telecoms to get all customers' IDs

#215

Post by AnthonyMouse »

jerf wrote: post #178
Ajedi32 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [Laws] are decided by (hopefully apolitical, public-good-oriented) specialists in the field of interest This doesn't sound to me at all like how a democratic country is supposed to function. It feels like you're describing China rather than the US. > Trump can do it at will. Which is also not how our constitution is supposed to work. The executive branch (which includes both the president and his appointees) is not…

"This doesn't sound to me at all like how a democratic country is supposed to function." There is a family of interesting theories, or perhaps if you prefer, simply a way of looking at history in which you don't consider the "United States" as a single governance structure that has existed back to 1776, but as a series of related, but distinct entities with distinct "social contracts" (a term laden with some philosop…

> how much worse off would it be if we still "representatives per person" numbers from 1776 and had a Congress of many thousands?

Isn't that actually a major cause of the trouble? You expect Congress to deal with more and more complexities but limit the number of people (i.e. experts) who are members of it, causing them all to be generalists and moreover to have to spend more of their time campaigning rather than debating because the value of each seat is higher and correspondingly so is the effort someone will put in to take it from you and the proportion of your time you have to spend merely defending it.

Meanwhile people feel that their vote doesn't matter because a member of Congress now represents almost a million people and then ordinary people can neither affect the campaign nor get the ear of their own representative.

Suppose it actually had ten thousand members. Then they would be ordinary people. The members who are doctors would understand both medicine and medical bureaucracy. The members who are engineers would understand technology. Instead of them being lawyers whose first job is campaigning.

Re: FCC wants to kill burner phones by forcing telecoms to get all customers' IDs

#216

Post by autoexec »

garyfirestorm wrote: post #4

Isn’t this already a requirement? Can you really buy a burner phone/sim without providing identifying information?

I had reason to pick up a couple cheap pre-paid phones at a gas station once. I wasn't asked to give an ID to anyone to buy them, but once I had them I needed to call a company to activate the phone and they were very particular about what phone number it would work from. It had to be a landline. Payphone wouldn't work. My work phone didn't work. It was difficult to track down a phone line they'd accept and even then one of the phones refused to register.

It seemed to me like they wanted to make sure they could tie the phones to an individual through activation.

Re: FCC wants to kill burner phones by forcing telecoms to get all customers' IDs

#217

Post by everdrive »

tumult wrote: post #187
everdrive wrote: post #180

And people will keep carrying their phones with them. And keep using them. And keep installing apps. Yes, ideally we'd have laws against government infringement, but the capability to not use your phone is in your hands.

More and more things require having a smartphone. Scan this QR code to install the app to cross the border. Install the app to use the street parking in this city. Install the app to board the bus. Install the app to get your filing status with department xyz. I admire your spirit of rebellion, but avoiding using a smartphone in daily life in most places will result in a lifestyle contorted specifically to avoid usin…

This is not meant as an argument or a counterpoint, I'm just not familiar with some of your examples. Would you be able to elaborate?

>Scan this QR code to install the app to cross the border.

Would this be a national border? I haven't traveled internationally for a while, but this would be quite troubling.

>Install the app to board the bus.

Is there no option to pay without an app?

>Install the app to get your filing status with department xyz.

Surely the government also allows you to just call and get an update?

Re: FCC wants to kill burner phones by forcing telecoms to get all customers' IDs

#218

Post by everdrive »

khat wrote: post #212
Ritewut wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is so divorced from reality. It is very difficult to live life in the modern world without a phone unless you want to go Amish.

Not really. Rural America you don't need a mobile phone. I can go days without ever touching my phone. And if it wasn't for my bank, I wouldn't need it at all. Even then I could just go to the bank but I'm too lazy to do that.

I'm with you. On my list of things to do is seek out a a local credit union so I'm not reliant on a banking app.

Re: FCC wants to kill burner phones by forcing telecoms to get all customers' IDs

#219

Post by singpolyma3 »

iamnothere wrote: post #150
OptionOfT wrote: post #133

This was the case in Belgium a couple of years ago. Everybody had to go to a store and have their ID read by the system, and if they didn't, the phone number would be shut down. Unsure how that worked for MVNOs though. Now I live in the USA and am well-familiar with the spam calls. I wonder if this new rule will reduce/prevent them. I think in general the ability to spoof numbers should be banned / controlled. Someon…

Spam calls are a different issue (spam is usually VOIP). Spammers also often use spoofed numbers since STIR/SHAKEN is somehow still not properly implemented.

All carrier interconnects use VoIP protocols since forever anyway. So this is pretty much a distinction without a difference. STIR/SHAKEN affects both

Re: FCC wants to kill burner phones by forcing telecoms to get all customers' IDs

#220

Post by autoexec »

Ritewut wrote: post #186
everdrive wrote: post #180

And people will keep carrying their phones with them. And keep using them. And keep installing apps. Yes, ideally we'd have laws against government infringement, but the capability to not use your phone is in your hands.

This comment is so divorced from reality. It is very difficult to live life in the modern world without a phone unless you want to go Amish.

I'm not Amish, but if I walk into a restaurant where they won't show me a menu without scanning a QR code, I walk right out.
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