The iPhone's Last Stand? • Hacker News Board

Re: The iPhone's Last Stand?

#191

Post by daft_pink » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 8:03 PM UTC

acdha wrote: post #160

daft_pink wrote: post #144

It kind of reminds me of Windows mobile and blackberry and palm os where apple was clearly behind but they eventually caught up. The first iPhone didn’t even have apps! I think agents are scary and complicated and dangerous enough that it is genuinely scary to give an agent an instruction like go buy this ticket. It’s okay and apple can easily simplify and eventually win. The mainstream hasn’t really started using ag…

> I think agents are scary and complicated and dangerous enough that it is genuinely scary to give an agent an instruction like go buy this ticket These ones also seem really weird because the baseline is most often someone using the iOS app to do the same thing, and the agent demos are usually slower in addition to being riskier. One of the Chrome demos had someone buying groceries at pretty hefty markup, which seem…

Something that I thought when reading this was that I'm not willing to buy groceries remotely, because when I had covid during the pandemic I had grocery delivery and I ended up with milk that expired in a few days and produce that was very subpar neither or which I would have bought in person.

I would actually be willing to use AI to purchase groceries if it could provide me with some assurance that it would choose the items better than a shopping cart.

As for now, I'm only willing to purchase non-perishable goods that are difficult to screw up online.

Might be a service idea for AI.

Re: The iPhone's Last Stand?

#192

Post by sleepybrett » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 8:09 PM UTC

MyelinatedT wrote: post #32

This Microsoft notion of “devices that don’t stand alone but surround you” sounds an awful lot like Google’s “ambient computing” of yonder.

Ambient computing goes back far further than that... and we are getting there. I have digital control over most of the lighting in my apartment as well as several other items through various iot adapters (button pushers, stepper motors attached to my blinds, power outlet relays). Audio reactive agents like alexa/bedpodsiri/whateverrunsheygoogle can put you in control of all of that. Nothing is stopping anyone from building a audio reactive agent that dumps input into their AI model or models of their choice if they want it.

With the right set-top-box, you tvs become just another display for whatever you want to send their way. We are extremely close to startrek tng style spaces. I'm sure there is a github repo out there that may even be there.

Why do you think apple has the appletv, the apple watch, the phone itself is essentially a pocketwatch with an addressable display.

I think we have all the parts it's just now about knitting them all together and building up a ux that works for normal people.

Re: The iPhone's Last Stand?

#193

Post by 827a » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 8:13 PM UTC

billdybas wrote: post #185

What I don't see anyone talking about is how Private Cloud Compute is behind an iCloud subscription. From what I can tell, this means any app that is using their foundation model is sharing against a user's pooled usage quota & Apple takes all the revenue upside if a user chooses to upgrade their plan. Why would an app developer choose their model which has a minuscule 32K context window, might get throttled because…

I have consumed a decent amount of literature coming out of WWDC and I do not understand how the billing and model availability side of things will work.

Its definitely the case that Apple said that some AI capabilities will rely on cloud hosted models; and that some of these capabilities will be metered; and that "some paid iCloud+ plans" include increased usage. Its unclear what the full extent of capabilities that rely on cloud models are. We know that Spatial Reframing is a capability that relies on cloud models and will be metered; this was stated on-stage. The typical conversations with Siri are, supposedly, a mix, possibly based on how complex the query is? We know there are two cloud-hosted models (what they call internally "Cloud" and "Cloud Pro"); are both of these metered? Does it depend on the use-case (e.g. is Spatial Reframing metered because of its use-case or because of which model it uses?)

A lot of this would be easier to figure out if there was, somewhere, a "meter" you could see drop every time you used a metered feature; but there isn't. There is zero indication of metered AI usage anywhere in the settings that I have found (I am on the 27 dev beta). There is also zero indication that any of the iCloud+ plans include metered AI usage. It is also of note that Apple very specifically said on-stage that "some iCloud+ plans" include increased usage; implying that the $2.99/mo plan likely does not.

Apple has also announced that developers under a certain revenue number can use their foundation models in private cloud compute for free [1]. This implies: third party developers will pay for it. In other words: it might be the case that your shared iCloud+ pool of AI usage only applies to AI capabilities from first-party Apple apps, while in third-party apps the developers are expected to front the bill. Which further reinforces your point: Why would anyone choose to integrate with these cloud models?

Strange situation, and unlike Apple; they seem very frantic.

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2026/06/08/apple-bets-cheaper-ai-will...

Re: The iPhone's Last Stand?

#194

Post by shimman » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 8:25 PM UTC

recursive wrote: post #162

threetonesun wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this every time: the average person never wants to hear the letters A and I. Not because it has a negative connotation, but because they don’t care how their phone gets them an answer to “when is my dentist appointment” they just want it to do it.

But also because it has a negative connotation. Not with everyone, but with a lot of people. If someone says "That looks like AI", do you think they are intending to make a compliment?

Yeah that comment is making it seem like people don't care if they are using AI only the results, but they not only do care they actively hate AI and tech companies associated with it too.

There is a reason why there is a massive backlash against data center buildouts across the US.

Re: The iPhone's Last Stand?

#195

Post by solid_fuel » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 8:29 PM UTC

QuadmasterXLII wrote: post #7

i was under the impression that the 2024 apple intelligence rollout was something of a victory: Apple realized that the majority of people don't actually want this stuff forced on them at the os level, and the ai maximalists all used apple anyways via clawbot (including purchasing an additional apple device, the mini!) because of apples non-ai-specific commitment to phone computer interop. Certainly the copilot butto…

Genuinely, the day they start shoving "AI features" into my iPhone is the day I switch to a fairphone or something I can actually own. I don't care if they include optional features, but I am so tired of seeing chatbots and text manglers shoved into every fucking app. I can write my own emails, thanks google.

Re: The iPhone's Last Stand?

#196

Post by solid_fuel » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 8:31 PM UTC

usrnm wrote: post #189

zarzavat wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They couldn't deliver because they are not a startup and thus have something to lose in a way that OpenAI/Anthropic don't. If Siri starts telling people to self-destruct themselves it would be a major PR disaster, whereas Apple Intelligence being late is not. Arguably the technology they needed (strong guardrails) didn't really exist at the time and the extra couple of years is what made the difference.

Are you saying that Google is a startup?

Google doesn't care about reputation the way Apple does. People are used to Google shipping broken features and shutting down products when they don't immediately sell. Apple is a premium brand and it's expected to be more stable, and to deliver solutions that actually work.

Re: The iPhone's Last Stand?

#197

Post by cmxch » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 8:34 PM UTC

al_borland wrote: post #134

cmxch wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least with Microsoft it’s more likely to not be a walled garden.

At least a walled garden exists. Microsoft pulls the products that don't work in the market. So either you're left with nothing, or endless migrations as they keep trying different things without traction.

If Windows Mobile* and maybe the Catapult FPGAs** are any indication, those are relatively lower walls than Apple.

The still unbroken(?) Zune and Windows RT are two rare exceptions.

* - from the HTC HD2 to the latter Lumias like the 1020 and 950/XL

** - buy a Quartus license and you have boatloads of small-ish DIY networkable Arria 10 GX accelerators at your disposal.

Re: The iPhone's Last Stand?

#198

Post by Schiendelman » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 8:42 PM UTC

827a wrote: post #187

MoonWalk wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on Microsoft's ever-more-fetid output over the last two decades, they can't sell self-respecting people jack squat.

IMO there's an even more real story at the heart of this idea than stratechery's predictable, banal attempt to compare Microsoft and Apple's competing visions of the future, and its part of why I've become so bored of stratechery's articles lately. He glances against that Microsoft video, recognizes that the video does a horrible job of communicating their vision, and then carries water for Microsoft by working overt…

He really missed something - Nvidia's video. Microsoft isn't the brand in front of the next AI on device. Nvidia and Microsoft are trying to figure that out, but it's likely (based on recent acquisitions) to be Nvidia on Windows.

Re: The iPhone's Last Stand?

#199

Post by usrnm » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 8:48 PM UTC

solid_fuel wrote: post #196

usrnm wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Google is a startup?

Google doesn't care about reputation the way Apple does. People are used to Google shipping broken features and shutting down products when they don't immediately sell. Apple is a premium brand and it's expected to be more stable, and to deliver solutions that actually work.

Yeah, that's exactly why Apple is paying money to Google now to fix the shitshow that is Siri

Re: The iPhone's Last Stand?

#200

Post by meatmanek » Tue, Jun 09, 2026, 9:14 PM UTC

827a wrote: post #193

billdybas wrote: post #185

What I don't see anyone talking about is how Private Cloud Compute is behind an iCloud subscription. From what I can tell, this means any app that is using their foundation model is sharing against a user's pooled usage quota & Apple takes all the revenue upside if a user chooses to upgrade their plan. Why would an app developer choose their model which has a minuscule 32K context window, might get throttled because…

I have consumed a decent amount of literature coming out of WWDC and I do not understand how the billing and model availability side of things will work. Its definitely the case that Apple said that some AI capabilities will rely on cloud hosted models; and that some of these capabilities will be metered; and that "some paid iCloud+ plans" include increased usage. Its unclear what the full extent of capabilities that…

Freemium is a potentially interesting model for app developers. If you're small enough to be in the free tier, you can avoid the risk of someone turning your app into the next backend for Chipotlai Max and running up your AI bill.

Once you get enough downloads to where Apple starts wanting to charge you money, you can consider switching to OpenAI or Anthropic or Google or Deepseek or whatever. Sounds like they've even made that relatively easy to do in the Foundation Models framework -- just implement the LanguageModel protocol. I expect open-source or provider-written adapters to pop up that would let you use your vendor of choice.