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Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

reuters.com

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Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#431

Post by fundatus »

viktorcode wrote: post #402
flopbob wrote: post #121

Why is there so much talk about privacy here? The DMA is an antitrust framework,the privacy argument is just the Apple spin of their refusal to comply

You mean DMCA. It is not an antitrust framework. Europe has pretty robust anti-trust framework. DMCA is an attempt to regulate companies that cannot be legally considered monopolies, and that do not run afoul of any pre-existing EU regulation. Just for that case a new category of business classification was invented: the gatekeepers, and coincidentally almost all of those gatekeepers are American companies. Unlike an…

DMCA is the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, a US law. DMA is the Digital Markets Act, a EU law.

It is in fact an antitrust law. It basically argues (correctly in my opinion) that Apple and other companies have created new markets inside of their products. And in those markets they exert total control, including charging developers extortionate fees, forcing them to use their subpar and expensive payment systems or restricting what users can run on the devices they own & a lot of paid money for.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#432

Post by chrisandchris »

burnte wrote: post #313
afavour wrote: post #2

Apple said "hey, can we not comply with the law", the EU said no, so it didn't launch. Seems pretty straightforward to me. I can see why Apple might want to request an 18 month exemption, there's clearly extra work required to comply with EU regulations. But on the other hand it also feels like a straightforward play for consumer sympathy: let them get used to using it every day for 18 months, then pressure the EU to…

> It's not as if Apple doesn't have the money to dedicate a team to matching the EU's requirements on a deadline. They just choose not to. Exactly, that's actually why I LIKE this decision so much. I'm not on Apple's side, but I REALLY like the idea that a company just says, "Fine, we'll comply by not even offering this product." It's a perfectly legitimate choice, and it FORCED Apple to evaluate the pros and cons. I…

And as a consumer, I am somewhat happy that a company says "well, then not" if it cannot comply with the law.

If the law makes sense, that I cannot judge in this case.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#433

Post by christkv »

shykes wrote: post #429
Nifty3929 wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly! Also forced EU voters to consider how much they value these services, and whether the regulations are worth it not to have them, or to have watered down versions of them. I say this without judgment - I see it as a legitimate area of consideration. I think the worst is hugely impactful laws for which exceptions are constantly carved out so nobody can truly evaluate whether the law/reg is a good one or n…

> Also forced EU voters to consider how much they value these services It's been a while since I left Europe, and I'm rusty on that particular layer of civics. Do EU voters actually have a say in this kind of regulation? Or is it all decided on the executive side which is only accountable to member states and not to individual citizens?

None. The EU is getting more and more un democratic by the year. More power centralized in the bureaucracy vis regulations and other mechanisms.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#434

Post by lxgr »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #362
lxgr wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing usually gets fixed by making belligerent appeals to emotion in the court of public opinion (which, in the EU, isn't nearly rooting for Apple as much as they might imagine, fwiw). If you want to launch something in a market you know to be heavily regulated, you figure it out or you don't launch. Sure, drop a hint here and there when asked in interviews about your product strategy, but you generally don't pick…

> imagine a European bank publishing a press release about how onerous the US credit card consumer protection laws are, or a Japanese car maker publicly whining about European car safety testing protocols Both of these happen. European banks complain about American securities law. And all manner of car makers delay releasing vehicles in America and the EU.

Definitely, but both tone and forum of the complaints are generally pretty different.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#435

Post by xlii »

t-sauer wrote: post #409
jandrewrogers wrote: post #79

I understand Apple's position on this one. This is essentially a backdoor into all of your data. It is also a very useful feature. The EU regulators are disallowing guardrails without which this backdoor will be used to strip-mine people's personal data. The privacy implications are not legible to most people. If I was more cynical I would suggest that this is being used as an end-run around encryption, since the enc…

> I understand Apple's position on this one Well then explain me this: There are absolutely no restriction on MacOS where I can give Claude free access to everything. If you are a Mac and iPhone user that essentially gives it access to the exact same data. Why is the data only protect worthy when accessed on the phone directly?

There's SIP. Claude can't install kernel extension and you can. (... and it just hit me why Apple requires specific reboot procedure to disable it)

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#436

Post by theshrike79 »

bigyabai wrote: post #306
MBCook wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like they are whitelisting the hashes of all the Google software and OSes and stuff to ensure nothing is changed out from under them without them knowing. Even if you could make all the other possible vendors run private cloud compute style stuff that would be a lot to manage. And I can’t imagine the EU would like, and as a user I would certainly hate, the “OK you can use Grok but you lose all privacy too b…

I don't even think it offers a meaningful degree of security. It's a form of theater, you have to be hand-selected to perform the audit that Apple promised. Most sysadmins know that hash matching only mitigates a small subset of rare upstream attacks. Apple could still be MITMing the whole thing (SSL added and removed here :)) and no auditor would get the chance to check. The offered audit is so weak that I would not…

If they're not "hand-selected", what would be the way to select the auditors?

Just have an open house for anyone interested to come poke the hardware and software?

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#437

Post by panny »

Reading the EU commenters' opinions is strange to me.

>Good! I'm glad I can't have new and improved!

In the US, we basically see this as a shakedown by foreign governments against our successful companies. It really is a matter of "build your own iPhone" you guys. You had Nokia, so don't tell me you can't compete globally. I'm pretty fed up with Google and Apple personally, so please do deliver me a nice EU phone with sd card, removable battery, unlocked sims, usb-c, and all the other nice things your regulators demand.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#438

Post by zdragnar »

rootusrootus wrote: post #109
zdragnar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the options are "launch in the rest of the world quickly and get to the EU later" or "launch everywhere at once years after the competition" PMs and execs are going to choose the latter every time.

Former, you mean?

Yes, indeed, I wasn't paying attention.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#439

Post by smegma2 »

afavour wrote: post #2

Apple said "hey, can we not comply with the law", the EU said no, so it didn't launch. Seems pretty straightforward to me. I can see why Apple might want to request an 18 month exemption, there's clearly extra work required to comply with EU regulations. But on the other hand it also feels like a straightforward play for consumer sympathy: let them get used to using it every day for 18 months, then pressure the EU to…

> let them get used to using it every day for 18 months, then pressure the EU to let it continue or you rip the feature away and anger users (who you then point to the EU as the problem)

And you’re saying that consumers would be incorrect in thinking that?

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#440

Post by luis_cho »

afavour wrote: post #2

Apple said "hey, can we not comply with the law", the EU said no, so it didn't launch. Seems pretty straightforward to me. I can see why Apple might want to request an 18 month exemption, there's clearly extra work required to comply with EU regulations. But on the other hand it also feels like a straightforward play for consumer sympathy: let them get used to using it every day for 18 months, then pressure the EU to…

EU should mandate open alternatives to Siri on Apple
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