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EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices

foodwatch.org

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Re: EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices

#91

Post by im3w1l »

thesmtsolver2 wrote: post #88
nozzlegear wrote: post #16

The report itself[†] blames the pesticide residue on a "boomerang effect" from EU countries: EU countries export these banned pesticides to third countries, those countries use the banned pesticides on the food they grow, and then the EU countries import that food. In effect, EU companies are still profiting off of the sale and use of banned pesticides on food that Europeans will eat. [†] https://www.foodwatch.org/fi…

> EU countries export these banned pesticides to third countries Shouldn't EU ban ideally exports of good that it bans internally?

Only if you see the world in black and white and those pesticides being an absolute evil. But if you see it as a complicated tradeoff where whats right for one country can be wrong for another then it's unproblematic.

Re: EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices

#92

Post by podocarp »

Theodores wrote: post #36
ofrzeta wrote: post #6

For spices and tea it really makes sense to buy organic (not that there are no fraudsters but still).

Yes and no! In the UK, tea means tea bags and that normally means tea bags made of a plastic/paper mix. If I remember, the bag material is made and then they heat it up to get the plastic out, revealing the holes, needed for the bag. Of late there has been criticism of microplastics in tea bags, and the posh organic bags have fared quite badly. Fancy sachets are not necessarily it. As for chemicals, not one farmer sp…

I am more worried about heavy metals and pesticide in tea than the micro plastics in the teabag. There is more tea than bag after all. Furthermore the ground tea found in teabags potentially release more pesticides/heavy metals compared to loose tea leaves you brew in a teapot.

Re: EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices

#93

Post by colechristensen »

Just a note that the majority of these detections report the lowest amount chemistry can reliably quantify. Not the danger level, the known biological effect level, the smallest amount where chemistry can say they're statically confident the substance is present in a known amount.

Modern gas chromatography is ridiculously sensitive.

Re: EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices

#94

Post by NopIdoN »

thesmtsolver2 wrote: post #89
Jensson wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The United States has far stricter labeling standards than the EU Source for that? All I can find says EU have stricter labeling standards except for forum comments such as yours here. Edit: > Many things that are well known memes are completely false To me it looks like "USA shows more additives due to harsher labeling standards" is just a meme, everything I've seen says Europe has stricter requirements on what yo…

https://www.tilleydistribution.com/insights/food-regulations... The European approach to food additives is visible. The EFSA assigns a 3- or 4-digit code to every food additive, and that number must be included on food labels if it’s used in a product. The EFSA believes this system makes it easier for consumers to look up and memorize specific additives. In the US, those same additives are required to be printed out…

That's not stricter, it's just different names.

Re: EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices

#95

Post by bluGill »

bluebarbet wrote: post #72
bluGill wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is we have modern science which in same cases has proven that the modern chemicals are less harmful. Remember lead was considered normal for many thousands of years

Modern science can only "prove" that something is not harmful on a timescale of a year or perhaps a decade, not a generation or more. If the precautionary principle had been applied in Roman times, lead would not have been considered safe. Nor asbestos, nor thalidomide, nor microplastics, nor a bunch of synthetic molecules - "proven safe" - that are routinely added to non-organic food in order to improve its yield or…

That is still better than organic, which doesn't even ask what science can show about chemicals. The obvious example is organic doesn't have GMOs, even though GMOs are the only foods we even try and prove safe. Everything else, what we just assumed, but nobody has ever actually checked.

Re: EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices

#96

Post by SchemaLoad »

fasterik wrote: post #84
SchemaLoad wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have seen over and over again chemicals which are "safe to consume" or "not that bad" actually do have very severe effects. It's just very hard to link cause and effect. When someone dies of cancer we can't pinpoint it to coming from the pesticide on the blueberries they ate a few months ago. We have all these terrible illnesses that we ascribe to bad luck, and then all of these new chemicals we haven't fully stud…

Even things we know for certain aren't "safe to consume" are harmless at small enough doses. If I drink chlorine at 1000 PPM it's going to kill me, but drinking it at 1 PPM (roughly the amount added to drinking water in many places, and well below the level in swimming pools) is considered harmless to humans and kills pathogens, so it's a net positive. It's possible that chlorine at 1 PPM causes cancer, but that's a…

[dead]

Re: EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices

#97

Post by bluGill »

kube-system wrote: post #73
bluGill wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is we have modern science which in same cases has proven that the modern chemicals are less harmful. Remember lead was considered normal for many thousands of years

Yes, but we understand modern science as it pertains to both... which is why lead is controlled for both organic and non-organic farming. Honestly curious, which of these is more harmful than the non-organic alternatives? https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-7/subtitle-B/chapter-I/su...

I used lead as an example only because everyone actually understands why it's harmful. There are a number of chemicals that are more harmful, common vinegar for example in the concentrations that are useful, but nobody understands it because nobody has actually read the safety information on such chemicals.

Re: EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices

#98

Post by gibspaulding »

im3w1l wrote: post #91
thesmtsolver2 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EU countries export these banned pesticides to third countries Shouldn't EU ban ideally exports of good that it bans internally?

Only if you see the world in black and white and those pesticides being an absolute evil. But if you see it as a complicated tradeoff where whats right for one country can be wrong for another then it's unproblematic.

In other words, “yes, definitely”. But they won’t because €€€€€.

Re: EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices

#99

Post by why_at »

kryptoncalm wrote: post #21

More relevant is that 14 out of 64 samples had levels above the legally allowed limit (MRL), of which 12 pesticides that are not approved in the EU (page 12 of report). This is more severe than products 'containing' pesticides, which could as well be advancements in measurement. Problematic products are: Peppers, dried (6x), Cumin (3x), Rice grain (2x), Tea leaves and stalks (1x), Non-fermented tea leaves (1x), Mix o…

It's strange to me that this isn't the emphasis of the article.

I assume the MRL the lowest amount which could possibly cause harm? If so then why does it matter for the rest of the products where the levels are below that?

It could be for potential environmental harm, but then the fact that these are being exported at all should tell you that they're being used, you don't have to test consumer goods.

Their recommendations include this:

>2. Automatically lower all maximum residue levels (MRLs) of non-approved pesticides to the limit of detection to prevent these substances from making their way back onto European plates via a dangerous ‘boomerang effect

But is this scientifically supported?

Re: EU-banned pesticides found in rice, tea and spices

#100

Post by germandiago »

nozzlegear wrote: post #16

The report itself[†] blames the pesticide residue on a "boomerang effect" from EU countries: EU countries export these banned pesticides to third countries, those countries use the banned pesticides on the food they grow, and then the EU countries import that food. In effect, EU companies are still profiting off of the sale and use of banned pesticides on food that Europeans will eat. [†] https://www.foodwatch.org/fi…

You cannot blame like this the administration when you make any regulatory mistake such as not knowing a rule or not being able to enforce it in practice.

It is amazing that we have regulations for everything and that when they cannot enforce it, they blame someone else.

Different way of dealing with people depending on who, not what.

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