Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

admin.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 891 posts

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#411

Post by jltsiren »

joe_mamba wrote: post #149
skywhopper wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their neighbors were similarly restrictive back then, and the European economy was not as integrated.

> the European economy was not as integrated And somehow despite this, the European economies had the biggest share of global GDP back then. And now they're more integrated than ever, have more immigration than ever, have created the EU as their "big daddy" leader and enforcer, and yet they can't stop losing share of GDP to the rest of the world. Stange. Maybe they should hit the brakes for a second and reflect that…

The root issue was already visible in the 1970s. When birth rates drop below replacement, you eventually end up with a society with more old people than kids. And when you have a society like that, you naturally invest more in maintaining the society and less in building the future.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#412

Post by tempay »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #398
tempay wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't comment outside of Geneva but it's hardly "slave wages": * https://www.mission-geneve.dfae.admin.ch/en/manual-labour-mi... * (scroll to the cost breakdown) https://batmaid.ch/en/about-us

A better definition of slave wages is: After food, shelter and necessities is there something left over? Lately consuner spending is increasingly debt indicating that its not break even.

> consuner spending is increasingly debt

Geneva has the highest minimum wage in the world precisely to try and avoid the "working poor".

Also the "consuner spending is increasingly debt" is very US centric view. The situation in Europe is less extreme and totally absent in many countries.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#413

Post by throwaway85825 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #403
throwaway85825 wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to geography Swiss city states were able to maintain their independence and resist incorporation into larger principalities and subsequent empires. The Swiss militia that defended this was the basis for the American 2nd ammendment. Arguably it was the Swiss greater class homogeneity that explains their success.

> Due to geography Swiss city states were able to maintain their independence and resist incorporation into larger principalities and subsequent empires Swiss territory has been part of, variously, the Roman Empire, various Germanic kingdoms, the Carolingian Empire, the HRE and Napoleonic France. Swiss independence was really only enshrined at the Congress of Vienna, I believe at the courtesy of Metternich. Of Austri…

>source

Arguably common knowledge but if you must. https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=...

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#414

Post by flexagoon »

like_any_other wrote: post #410
bapo wrote: post #146

Swiss here and able to vote. In fact, just posted my voting letter today, before taking a 1h bike ride through the biggest city in Switzerland, having lots of space and freedom biking around in our beautiful city. When taking the train to my parents house, I pass several farms and landly smaller cities. Alot of free space in between those, train mostly has spare seats, depending on rush hour timings. There usually ar…

Sounds like a lovely place. Why wouldn't you want to pass a law to keep it that way?

Why would you want less people to live in a lovely place?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#415

Post by [deleted] »

actionfromafar wrote: post #399
diath wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These jobs are unpopular because the pay is shit, not because people don't want to do them, the government could simply have grants/bonus program for people employed in these positions so that the taxpayer money directly funds the bettering of the society and environment around them. Besides, Japan is a good real world example that you do not need to lean on immigrant labor to stop your country from becoming "dirty";…

Yeah... but aren't there many more poor people in Japan, too?

[deleted]

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#416

Post by throwaway85825 »

tempay wrote: post #412
throwaway85825 wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better definition of slave wages is: After food, shelter and necessities is there something left over? Lately consuner spending is increasingly debt indicating that its not break even.

> consuner spending is increasingly debt Geneva has the highest minimum wage in the world precisely to try and avoid the "working poor". Also the "consuner spending is increasingly debt" is very US centric view. The situation in Europe is less extreme and totally absent in many countries.

>locals largely won't do

This is never true and just economic denialism. There is a market price for labor. If there is no supply at a given price it is not evidence that a market does not exist, only that the demand is mispriced.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#417

Post by j_maffe »

joe_mamba wrote: post #149
skywhopper wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their neighbors were similarly restrictive back then, and the European economy was not as integrated.

> the European economy was not as integrated And somehow despite this, the European economies had the biggest share of global GDP back then. And now they're more integrated than ever, have more immigration than ever, have created the EU as their "big daddy" leader and enforcer, and yet they can't stop losing share of GDP to the rest of the world. Stange. Maybe they should hit the brakes for a second and reflect that…

> Maybe the solution is not more EU, but less EU.

You haven't given a single reason why that would be beneficial.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#418

Post by greggoB »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #173
FabCH wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no demand for modifying freedom of movement within EU. It’s not even a topic in most EU countries. What IS a topic, is preventing non-EU migration, and that has broad support and slowly all parties are moving in that direction. And we are NOT EU. But for now, they basically go „yes yes, but we think of you as EU because we are so tightly connected“. So what do you expect to happen if we push the point and ma…

> There is no demand for modifying freedom of movement within EU Again, based on what polling? > what do you expect to happen if we push the point and make them treat us as non-EU? I frankly don't expect the EU to be unreasonably spiteful. (And for the record, I don’t think the EU was spiteful with the UK.)

> Again, based on what polling?

Do you have evidence/polling to suggest otherwise?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#419

Post by wat10000 »

philipallstar wrote: post #361
netsharc wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a dog whistle for "if a country's racial identity remained pure everything would've been fine".

It's nothing to do with race. You need to gain the mindset that not everything is about race.

If it’s nothing to do with race, then why is a country with four official languages being called “homogeneous”?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#420

Post by [deleted] »

philipallstar wrote: post #404
tpholland wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did you mean when you said homogenous, given the reality of Switzerland, its history, its civil structure, its languages, and its culture?

I don't know what the exact word is - I wouldn't quite say "culture", as there are clearly different cultural backgrounds at work, but just as with Canada mixing French and Anglo traditions, there is a generally homogenous Western European metaculture at work, premised on the Enlightenment, classical liberalism, the rule of law (and equality of opportunity under the law), freedom of religion, the importance of educat…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN