Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M • Hacker News Board

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#251

Post by usefulcat » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:58 PM UTC

bootsmann wrote: post #191

rayiner wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it a population cap for something that seems to be about stricter border controls is a wild marketing choice.

It is a population cap, you can read this proposal its like 5 lines of text.

If Swiss population growth were entirely attributable to the children of existing Swiss residents, then this initiative would be pointless because it wouldn't change anything, and we would not be having this conversation.

So yes, it absolutely is about immigration, regardless of the wording.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#252

Post by philipallstar » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:58 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #234

philipallstar wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> only spends 16% of GDP on public welfare It's easy to not have to spend much money on public welfare when there is a constant stream of foreign money floating in.

That doesn't make much sense. Do you think foreign money is directly paid to people who would otherwise be welfare recipients? Is there anything foreign money can't do, would you say?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#253

Post by SiempreViernes » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:59 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #161

phoronixrly wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are mistaken. I am pro-Scotland independence and EU admission but anti Catalonia independence. Simply because the former will expand and strengthen the EU and the latter will divide and weaken it, especially since it's supported by Russia.

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This is not pointlessly argumentative, this is just downright trolling.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#254

Post by rayiner » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:59 PM UTC

stymaar wrote: post #199

rayiner wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> benefits from diverse cultures You mean "benefits from increased population," right? Because isn't the whole theory that people are the same? If so, you're just adding new people who are exactly the same as the existing people. So the only benefits come from having more people, or more people with certain skills (if you're filtering based on that).

Nobody in Switzerland is worried about the population growing due to birthrate. This referendum is about stopping immigration (even though in Switzerland more than anywhere else, immigration is at the foundation of the country's wealth).

> (even though in Switzerland more than anywhere else, immigration is at the foundation of the country's wealth).

Is that true? Switzerland's foreign-born population was under 5% around WWII. Wasn't Switzerland already a rich country by then?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#255

Post by kypro » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 9:01 PM UTC

bapo wrote: post #146

Swiss here and able to vote. In fact, just posted my voting letter today, before taking a 1h bike ride through the biggest city in Switzerland, having lots of space and freedom biking around in our beautiful city. When taking the train to my parents house, I pass several farms and landly smaller cities. Alot of free space in between those, train mostly has spare seats, depending on rush hour timings. There usually ar…

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#256

Post by BoingBoomTschak » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 9:02 PM UTC

FabCH wrote: post #67

fractallyte wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's being proposed in order to maintain quality of life. No one wants to be overcrowded. This is a sane solution: collectively agree on the maximum tolerable population. Then it's down to individual responsibility to obey the norms of one's society. Edit: unless you're Swiss, your opinion is irrelevant. Swiss voters have a right to decide how they want to live. They're not beholden to EU laws; they can make their ow…

Well I _am_ Swiss. You missed the part where we _voluntarily_ chose to enter into a contract with the EU that does in fact beholden us to EU laws. We can go back on that contract, but breaking your word is something that people remember for a reason.

Maybe not a legally smart move, but morally... when was it signed? Perhaps way before some EU countries decided to stop enforcing their borders beyond the performative level? And since these agreements basically force countries (especially rich countries with socialist systems) to somewhat share the burden of that choice they didn't make, I don't blame them in the least.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#257

Post by bojan » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 9:02 PM UTC

philipallstar wrote: post #128

arjie wrote: post #31

This is such a fascinating referendum. The population is at 9.1m, and at 9.5m it appears they'll stall asylum and family reunification, and at 10m they'll execute a Swexit - Switzerland isn't in the EU but it allows freedom of movement to EU nationals. Boy it is interesting to see what's going on in the world right now. There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up…

> There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up in an era of European unity and American primacy European unity works well in a world of mostly-stable populations. Having mass migrations from large, relatively empty countries, to pretty full ones, is going to make the full ones increasingly expensive to make housing for, to power, and to water.

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#258

Post by bsimpson » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 9:02 PM UTC

stymaar wrote: post #199

rayiner wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> benefits from diverse cultures You mean "benefits from increased population," right? Because isn't the whole theory that people are the same? If so, you're just adding new people who are exactly the same as the existing people. So the only benefits come from having more people, or more people with certain skills (if you're filtering based on that).

Nobody in Switzerland is worried about the population growing due to birthrate. This referendum is about stopping immigration (even though in Switzerland more than anywhere else, immigration is at the foundation of the country's wealth).

If the referendum passes and the population crosses the threshold, Switzerland may need to remove itself from e.g. the Schengen area. All the remediations mentioned in the referendum are about suspending immigration.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#259

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 9:03 PM UTC

idiotsecant wrote: post #226

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not what that means.

Thats exactly what that means. The UK did the thing you want to do and had a bad outcome because they didn't do it right. The true and best and correct way to get it done of course would have none of those bad outcomes.

> UK did the thing you want to do

The UK invoked Article 50. It didn’t have to, but it chose to because Britain. There is no world in which Switzerland is the party that tears up all of its EU agreements.

If someone says that’s a bad dog and I say no, that’s a cat, that’s not an example of No True Scotsman, it’s a category error.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#260

Post by Stevvo » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 9:03 PM UTC

kuboble wrote: post #132

Being in Switzerland it looks to me like this is a really tough referendum. Both sides have very good arguments and from the side it looks like either way the Switzerland has to give up some asoects of its high quality of life. If the initiative succeeds, Switzerland will get a large hit from the cancelation of a lot of bilateral agreements with the EU. If the population exceeds 10M then the current rail and road inf…

ETCS level 2 can increase rail capacity by orders of magnitude without laying any new track. You can have multiple trains following each other separated by stopping distance instead of having to separate trains between trackside signals.