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Italy's Bending Spoons, owner of AOL and Vimeo, files for Nasdaq IPO

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Re: Italy's Bending Spoons, owner of AOL and Vimeo, files for Nasdaq IPO

#81
post #14

IMO, they buy companies, lay off en masse and sell the now sunsetted products. Reminiscent of "Chainsaw" Al Dunlap, but he gutted and then flipped whole companies. I think of them as the bakery outlet store that sells only stale goods.

They didn’t burn Evernote to the ground to my surprise, but I jumped ship the day they bought it. It turned out that I have grown out of Evernote anyway, so no big loss.

I really liked Evernote but they raised the price too much for me.

I used it mostly as an archive for long term storage where I could find things easily and it was pleasant to use. When it was $36 / year it made sense for me. I probably only used it a dozen or two times every year so it cost me roughly $1 / session.

Then they quadrupled the price for me and paying $4 to dig out my TSA known traveler number was too much. I loaded it all into another application (Obsidian which is going downhill as well).

Re: Italy's Bending Spoons, owner of AOL and Vimeo, files for Nasdaq IPO

#82
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow sounds very family friendly!

So? Doesn't sound any worse than the average restaurant.

How many people work in your family? How many different events in random parts of the world can your family attend together at mid-night December 31st?

Re: Italy's Bending Spoons, owner of AOL and Vimeo, files for Nasdaq IPO

#83
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It turns out a lot of corporate IT has no idea how to switch vendors in case a product they use gets acquired by a company with this business model. This always shocks me. I moved a company off of Salesforce in 45 days without a big issue. Day 1 was a bit slower but by day 2 folks were back at full speed. I've pulled off EMR migrations, ERP, accounting, etc. Moving is scary but doable. Sometimes the execs will just…

Curious what did you move them into from SF? SF is usually treated as this infallible perfect piece of software by non-tech folks, especially those looking to pad their resumes.

SF has worked very hard to cultivate that reputation, and at the end of the day they're mostly an overpriced application host. Once you communicate to the stakeholders that what they have in SF is just another application, and not actually "special", the conversations become a lot easier to have. They feel like Salesforce has them over a barrel at renewal time and helping them understand they CAN move makes a lot of conversations happen.

The answer to what have I switched people to is at the end of this post.

One company was using SF as a patient management system because their EMR wasn't set up right. They spent 6 figures a year on SF just to communicate with patients, make and change appointments, send and receive documents, record insurance information, etc. I spend 2 months fixing the EMR and they moved everyone to that, canceled, SF, and saved $200k/yr on SF and another $250k/yr on SF consultants. For a $50m/yr business, that's a lot.

Another was using SF as a ticket system. Those folks we moved to FreshService. $180k down to $15k/yr. From my experience, ticket systems tend to be one of the most common existing applications that get duplicated inside SF. People think they have to build it in SF rather than just linking your apps. There was another company who kept SF for their CRM aspects but we moved them to an external ticket system that linked to SF and cut their SF bill from $550/yr to $270/yr.

Then there have been cases where I'm brought in while in the middle of a development project. One of my favorites was this consulting firm said they could do all these things and integrate their EMR and Salesforce and that they had done it before with their custom middleware. But every month there'd be a new change-order from them where they said certain things weren't possible, and it came with an invoice! They were CHARGING this company to reduce the scope of an approved, signed, paid contract. I jumped in and said, "we're not paying any of these change orders, you don't get to charge us to do less work. You promised all these features, you said your software ALREADY DID them. What's the problem?" Then for two months we went round and round where I was able to offer them methods to do every single feature they said wasn't possible, and then they'd invent another reason they couldn't do it. I said we're done, canceling the contract, not paying any open invoices, not paying the remainder of the invoice, and in exchange I wouldn't recommend we sue them to get back everything we paid so far. Their own lawyer agreed, and we parted ways. They had us sign a Salesforce contract before we even paid them, so we were a year into a 3 years salesforce contract and literally nothing had been built out. By this time it turns out I had a reputation in the salesforce finance department, so it didn't take a lot of arguing to get them to offer a 50% reduction in exchange for paying off the contract immediately and canceling it.

What they get moved to depends on what they actually need. 50% of the time it's not a CRM at all but a more appropriate app like an EMR, ticket system, ERP, scheduling apps, invocing solutions for existing accounting apps, etc.

The rest of the time it'll be to CRMs and marketing tools that already exist, or custom extensions/connectors to their apps or a way to link their apps and a CRM. I've moved folks to Monday, Nutshell, Hubspot (who I don't like either but they're better than SF), a dozen others.

I haven't dealt with a company yet that couldn't move to a cheaper alternative with no loss in functionality. If execs have emotional ties to SF then I can't do anything. I had one client, the sales VP shot down a conversion because he liked being able to say "we run on Salesforce!" Literally. he liked being able to brag they could afford Salesforce. I just left that one alone.

Re: Italy's Bending Spoons, owner of AOL and Vimeo, files for Nasdaq IPO

#84
post #74
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It turns out a lot of corporate IT has no idea how to switch vendors in case a product they use gets acquired by a company with this business model. This always shocks me. I moved a company off of Salesforce in 45 days without a big issue. Day 1 was a bit slower but by day 2 folks were back at full speed. I've pulled off EMR migrations, ERP, accounting, etc. Moving is scary but doable. Sometimes the execs will just…

Sometimes these deals are backroom friends/frat bros/sex etc and make no sense without knowing that crap.

Oh yes, I've had proposals rejected for terrible reasons. "I like bragging we can afford Salesforce." "We're special, other companies can't do what we do and other platforms can't do what Salesforce does." "I go back years with Salesbozo, he's giving us deals no one else gets, I trust him." (meanwhile they're paying 10% under list, not a good deal at all).

One of my absolute favorites was, "well, our Salesforce consultant is the husband of the VP of marketing so we can't do anything that would eliminate his contract." In the end we got rid of Salesforce, him, AND the VP of marketing.

Re: Italy's Bending Spoons, owner of AOL and Vimeo, files for Nasdaq IPO

#85
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It turns out a lot of corporate IT has no idea how to switch vendors in case a product they use gets acquired by a company with this business model. This always shocks me. I moved a company off of Salesforce in 45 days without a big issue. Day 1 was a bit slower but by day 2 folks were back at full speed. I've pulled off EMR migrations, ERP, accounting, etc. Moving is scary but doable. Sometimes the execs will just…

Curious what did you move them into from SF? SF is usually treated as this infallible perfect piece of software by non-tech folks, especially those looking to pad their resumes.

I worked at SugarCRM for years. It's often easier than one suspects once you figured out what a customer pain points are and show them a less burdensome solve. Most businesses do not need the kitchen sink approach of SFDC or SAP, they just have rarely had that demo'd to them.

Re: Italy's Bending Spoons, owner of AOL and Vimeo, files for Nasdaq IPO

#86
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It turns out a lot of corporate IT has no idea how to switch vendors in case a product they use gets acquired by a company with this business model. This always shocks me. I moved a company off of Salesforce in 45 days without a big issue. Day 1 was a bit slower but by day 2 folks were back at full speed. I've pulled off EMR migrations, ERP, accounting, etc. Moving is scary but doable. Sometimes the execs will just…

Why was the board involved in that decision to begin with?

That is both an excellent question and the root problem at that company. The PE firm was a majority shareholder, drive the board, and there were two board members who were HEAVILY involved in the company. Too heavily, they kept making decisions about them and not the company, and that's why I left. Several months later the PE firm was tired if waiting for results, fired those two board members and sold their share of the company at a big loss.

I was really surprised, because one of the two I'd worked with at three other companies, all of which had successful exits (including an inpatient healthcare provider that we ran and sold during COVID!). Something changed, and at this company he made it all about him making the calls and not just trusting his CEO and company staff. He froze out the C-suite, manipulated facts to cause a change of leadership, and in 6 months he forced the new CEO to do all these dumb ideas we'd already tried repeatedly, taking the company from being break even and close to profit to a $2m/month revenue shortfall. There were structural process issues inside the company but he just kept insisting we needed a bigger marketing spend, "marketing can fix any problem."

Re: Italy's Bending Spoons, owner of AOL and Vimeo, files for Nasdaq IPO

#87
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least Evernote was saved by Bending Spoons. At one point, even Evernote was getting roughly a third of its monthly revenue from merchandise, which is pretty wild for a paperless note-taking app and a decent sign that the core business was already in bad shape. For the rest, though, they seem very good at squeezing hard whatever is left.

Yep, but now they’re jacking the pricing to the moon and everyone is starting to leave for other apps. I almost did it this year and probably will do it next year.

I left last month. $250 a year or something crazy like that. Obsidian has a free web clipper, I'm planning on using that since I was just bookmarking stuff.

Re: Italy's Bending Spoons, owner of AOL and Vimeo, files for Nasdaq IPO

#88
post #14

IMO, they buy companies, lay off en masse and sell the now sunsetted products. Reminiscent of "Chainsaw" Al Dunlap, but he gutted and then flipped whole companies. I think of them as the bakery outlet store that sells only stale goods.

Warren Buffett used to do the same for decades, in fact this is how he came to control Berkshire Hathaway which he calls his worst investment, as it wasn't rational and merely driven by ego. He wanted to take a controlling share of the company and then sell it for pieces so he started to buy increasing stakes in it. When Berkshire management understood Buffett's plan they decided to stop him to not let him cannibaliz…

Buffett wasn't liquidating textile mills. What would happen is that all the publicly traded New England textile companies themselves would close down unprofitable mill locations to stay alive and would use the resulting cash from liquidating the real estate to do a tender offer. Buffett simply bought the shares and waited for the next tender offer to happen.

When Buffett eventually did take control of the Berkshire, he poured tons of money into it to try to keep it alive, and eventually lost every dollar he invested. He didn't make the decision to shut down the last mill until 1985! That was 20 years after taking control. Throwing all that good money after bad to try keeping it afloat is why he called it a 'monumentally stupid decision'.

Re: Italy's Bending Spoons, owner of AOL and Vimeo, files for Nasdaq IPO

#89
post #84
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes these deals are backroom friends/frat bros/sex etc and make no sense without knowing that crap.

Oh yes, I've had proposals rejected for terrible reasons. "I like bragging we can afford Salesforce." "We're special, other companies can't do what we do and other platforms can't do what Salesforce does." "I go back years with Salesbozo, he's giving us deals no one else gets, I trust him." (meanwhile they're paying 10% under list, not a good deal at all). One of my absolute favorites was, "well, our Salesforce consu…

Yeah I hate the double standards here, if someone lower level recommends someone that they know or heaven forbid related to HR acts like they must quash this awful nepotism and scheming ha.

Re: Italy's Bending Spoons, owner of AOL and Vimeo, files for Nasdaq IPO

#90
post #38
post #14

IMO, they buy companies, lay off en masse and sell the now sunsetted products. Reminiscent of "Chainsaw" Al Dunlap, but he gutted and then flipped whole companies. I think of them as the bakery outlet store that sells only stale goods.

This guy dubbed it “get Komooted”, as they pulled the same trick for used-to-be-great cycling app Komoot: https://bikepacking.com/plog/when-we-get-komooted/ The app quality almost immediately went down the drain after the acquisition by Bending Spoons.

I don't like PE players like Bending Spoons, but I have used Komoot extensively for years, for cycling (and more recently hiking), and haven't seen any decrease in quality since the acquisition.
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