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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#211

Post by didgetmaster »

foobarian wrote: post #100
arjie wrote: post #31

This is such a fascinating referendum. The population is at 9.1m, and at 9.5m it appears they'll stall asylum and family reunification, and at 10m they'll execute a Swexit - Switzerland isn't in the EU but it allows freedom of movement to EU nationals. Boy it is interesting to see what's going on in the world right now. There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up…

Elderly people in our village in east Europe used to be super suspicious of the EU project and would say that European countries get along like "a sack of horns." Hopefully they were wrong :-)

>Hopefully they were wrong.

Over a thousand years of history has shown that they were right.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#212

Post by teiferer »

arjie wrote: post #31

This is such a fascinating referendum. The population is at 9.1m, and at 9.5m it appears they'll stall asylum and family reunification, and at 10m they'll execute a Swexit - Switzerland isn't in the EU but it allows freedom of movement to EU nationals. Boy it is interesting to see what's going on in the world right now. There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up…

> interesting

The word I'd choose instead is "concerning" if not "scary".

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#213

Post by ericmay »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #195
ericmay wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it would be - you're focusing on the actions of the territory (for lack of a better term) and ignoring the parent organization. It's a bit of a stretch to be upset at Switzerland who would be serving in a role similar to Scotland or Greenland here for voting to take an action and then being ok with it in other instances. There isn't any consistency in this position in how you are picking and choosing wh…

> you're focusing on the actions of the territory (for lack of a better term) and ignoring the parent organization That’s how self determination works. > bit of a stretch to be upset at Switzerland who would be serving in a role similar to Scotland or Greenland* You’re muddling wildly different situations with wildly different levels of sympathy.

> That’s how self determination works.

Right, like when the UK left the EU.

> You’re muddling wildly different situations with wildly different levels of sympathy.

I'm not sure they're really that different at a high level. The population of Spain would vote against Catalonia leaving. The population of the UK would vote against Scotland leaving. How can these groups (Scotland and Catalonia) self-determine to leave?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#214

Post by stymaar »

bootsmann wrote: post #191
rayiner wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling it a population cap for something that seems to be about stricter border controls is a wild marketing choice.

It is a population cap, you can read this proposal its like 5 lines of text.

It's a migration cap. There's no provision on sterilizing Swiss women should the threshold be reached through birthrate…

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#215

Post by duped »

philipallstar wrote: post #128
arjie wrote: post #31

This is such a fascinating referendum. The population is at 9.1m, and at 9.5m it appears they'll stall asylum and family reunification, and at 10m they'll execute a Swexit - Switzerland isn't in the EU but it allows freedom of movement to EU nationals. Boy it is interesting to see what's going on in the world right now. There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up…

> There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up in an era of European unity and American primacy European unity works well in a world of mostly-stable populations. Having mass migrations from large, relatively empty countries, to pretty full ones, is going to make the full ones increasingly expensive to make housing for, to power, and to water.

Global freedom of movement was an inalienable right until European colonial powers noticed some of their colonies' peoples wanted to move to Europe.

Large scale global movement is indicative of failure to uplift the globe from violence, poverty, and climate change. It makes a lot more sense to me for the global powers who don't want mass migration to do something to fix its causes instead of retreating inward and succumbing to nativism.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#216

Post by SiempreViernes »

ericmay wrote: post #187
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say what? Switzerland isn't in the EU, how can it leave? It has treaties, but not membership. That doesn't make it "leaving" if they annul the treaties.

This was the OP: > It wouldn’t be full Chexit. Just renegotiating and then rejecting the Schengen chapter. It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause. My terminology was matching what was used here.

Sorry, nobody in the know would interpreted "Chexit" to mean "leave the EU" for the obvious reason that Switzerland is not in the EU.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#217

Post by tastyface »

IlikeMadison wrote: post #163
bapo wrote: post #146

Swiss here and able to vote. In fact, just posted my voting letter today, before taking a 1h bike ride through the biggest city in Switzerland, having lots of space and freedom biking around in our beautiful city. When taking the train to my parents house, I pass several farms and landly smaller cities. Alot of free space in between those, train mostly has spare seats, depending on rush hour timings. There usually ar…

[flagged]

I'd be *far* more concerned about living next to the Swiss equivalent of Tommy Robinson than a Muslim or African.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#218

Post by bootsmann »

FabCH wrote: post #60
notimetorelax wrote: post #52

As a voting member of the population all I can say is - good luck winning it… We have silly initiatives once in a while, that’s because you don’t need that much to start one.

Don’t be so quick. You know full well that the polls are 52% no. It will be a razor thin rejection and the SVP will try again until they find one that passes.

Its honestly so annoying, every 3 years we have to vote against the same garbage proposal because the SVP is unwilling to accept the will of the electorate.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#219

Post by ericmay »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #216
ericmay wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the OP: > It wouldn’t be full Chexit. Just renegotiating and then rejecting the Schengen chapter. It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause. My terminology was matching what was used here.

Sorry, nobody in the know would interpreted "Chexit" to mean "leave the EU" for the obvious reason that Switzerland is not in the EU.

This is pointlessly argumentative, but I'm just going to continue having a conversation using the terminology brought up by the OP and what I interpreted them to mean. It seems to be working just fine for us.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#220

Post by spockz »

throw-the-towel wrote: post #178
hvb2 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't add more trains if the schedule is full to the brink. You would need to add train tracks, and that requires big projects

And it is in fact so full that traibs crossing over from Germany sometimes get denied entry into the Swiss networks because there's no room to fit them in the schedule.

AFAICT they only get denied if they are not on time.
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