Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M • Hacker News Board

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#171

Post by throw-the-towel » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:28 PM UTC

kaufmae wrote: post #157

philipallstar wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up in an era of European unity and American primacy European unity works well in a world of mostly-stable populations. Having mass migrations from large, relatively empty countries, to pretty full ones, is going to make the full ones increasingly expensive to make housing for, to power, and to water.

most of the immigrants are highly educated professionals, big tech, pharma and meds. it‘s not the „empty“.

Can you back up your claims? I don't have a dog in this fight, but do notice people ridiculing migrants as "doctors and engineers".

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#172

Post by dyauspitr » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:28 PM UTC

kaufmae wrote: post #157

philipallstar wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up in an era of European unity and American primacy European unity works well in a world of mostly-stable populations. Having mass migrations from large, relatively empty countries, to pretty full ones, is going to make the full ones increasingly expensive to make housing for, to power, and to water.

most of the immigrants are highly educated professionals, big tech, pharma and meds. it‘s not the „empty“.

That’s to the US. I believe in Europe it’s Arab hoipolloi

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#173

Post by JumpCrisscross » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:28 PM UTC

FabCH wrote: post #145

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Support for EU within EU is growing since the war in Ukraine I believe you. But hard numbers? > No current political party except for fringe parties in any EU state advocates for exiting the EU or ending the four freedoms Eh, there seems to be massive demand for modifying either freedom of movement or the context around it. > They made that quite clear with the UK The UK invoked Article 50. That wouldn’t happen her…

There is no demand for modifying freedom of movement within EU. It’s not even a topic in most EU countries. What IS a topic, is preventing non-EU migration, and that has broad support and slowly all parties are moving in that direction. And we are NOT EU. But for now, they basically go „yes yes, but we think of you as EU because we are so tightly connected“. So what do you expect to happen if we push the point and ma…

> There is no demand for modifying freedom of movement within EU

Again, based on what polling?

> what do you expect to happen if we push the point and make them treat us as non-EU?

I frankly don't expect the EU to be unreasonably spiteful. (And for the record, I don’t think the EU was spiteful with the UK.)

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#174

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:28 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #169

ceejayoz wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the UK's thinking, too. "We won't have a hard Brexit! Of course they'll negotiate a plan!"

And then the UK delivered an Article 50 notice. That isn’t something this referendum would force.

The UK's referendum was also non-binding, in theory.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#175

Post by philipallstar » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:29 PM UTC

kaufmae wrote: post #157

philipallstar wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up in an era of European unity and American primacy European unity works well in a world of mostly-stable populations. Having mass migrations from large, relatively empty countries, to pretty full ones, is going to make the full ones increasingly expensive to make housing for, to power, and to water.

most of the immigrants are highly educated professionals, big tech, pharma and meds. it‘s not the „empty“.

They definitely aren't, but whomever they are they still requires houses, power and water.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#176

Post by maxglute » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:29 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #49

transcriptase wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes far more sense than the “population must increase forever” pyramid scheme the rest of the West is running. Check out Canada for a look at what happens when you try to juice GDP via population growth at the expense of literally everything else.

What happens, specifically? Not that I'm a fan of "population increase forever" but what's wrong with Canada?

Pop increase faster than housing / good jobs. The usual. Tried to juice economy post covid with MASS Indian immigration, for reference peak "Chinese" immigration was post HK handover was 60k, settled at 40k per year, lots of Chinese wealth transfer to Canada. Indian immigration went from 60k per year to over 140k, outrageous amount. Bluntly, most of west including Canada gets second tier immigrants, all the good opportunities in US, Canada doesn't get to retain tier1 talent, and Indian immigrants are in aggregate less wealthy. The entire point of brain drain is to get best brains, or in lieu get wealth. Canada got neither. This not knock on Indian immigrants, who work just as hard as every other, just acknowledging value proposition is not the same.

The broader context is Canada is on paper a small pop country with sufficiently alright governance to get per capita rich selling shit from ground. The more people you have have, the less that model works, and frankly Canada at 25m in the 00s already passed that point (vs 6m Norway). It doesn't help that... foreign influence have stagnated Canadian fossil/extractive industries development. Trudeau thought it was good idea to aim for 100m Canadians by 2100 (century initiative)... which on paper makes sense - only way for Canada to compete/influence vs US is heft, but of course that means a lot of brown and eventually black people fighting for housing and opportunities in the interregnum.

Unsurprisingly, broken housing market = no one likes that interregnum.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#177

Post by toader » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:30 PM UTC

IlikeMadison wrote: post #163

bapo wrote: post #146

Swiss here and able to vote. In fact, just posted my voting letter today, before taking a 1h bike ride through the biggest city in Switzerland, having lots of space and freedom biking around in our beautiful city. When taking the train to my parents house, I pass several farms and landly smaller cities. Alot of free space in between those, train mostly has spare seats, depending on rush hour timings. There usually ar…

[flagged]

Please elaborate on this "harmful ideology you are trying to conceal"?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#178

Post by throw-the-towel » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:30 PM UTC

hvb2 wrote: post #147

contagiousflow wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how adding frequency to the train network will not work to compensate higher ridership?

You can't add more trains if the schedule is full to the brink. You would need to add train tracks, and that requires big projects

And it is in fact so full that traibs crossing over from Germany sometimes get denied entry into the Swiss networks because there's no room to fit them in the schedule.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#179

Post by AnimalMuppet » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:30 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #166

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sure you're also staunchly against Scotland and any referendum to join the EU, and against Catalonia becoming independent as well? Why? I think the first is a good idea and the second fine if that’s what they want.

Because those would be breaking up the unions of those countries. It's no different morally or philosophically from Switzerland leaving the EU.

Say what? Switzerland isn't in the EU, how can it leave?

It has treaties, but not membership. That doesn't make it "leaving" if they annul the treaties.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#180

Post by ericmay » Mon, Jun 08, 2026, 8:31 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #167

ericmay wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

…if Greenland voted to join the U.S., the conversation would be quite different.

I don't think it would be - you're focusing on the actions of the territory (for lack of a better term) and ignoring the parent organization.

It's a bit of a stretch to be upset at Switzerland who would be serving in a role similar to Scotland or Greenland here for voting to take an action and then being ok with it in other instances. There isn't any consistency in this position in how you are picking and choosing what sovereignty you respect and what sovereignty you don't respect. Well, you can be consistent if you are in favor of the EU as an imperial organization that seeks to enlarge itself and punish member states, but I'm not sure if that's your belief.