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LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

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Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that huge deflation will follow for everything except land value. If automation makes producing food so cheap that it is almost free than it is ridiculously easy to acquire it. Similarly automated construction. The way I see it the economy will point towards outer space. That’s where most jobs and flow of economy will be. However most people will have 10x times uplift in purchasing power compared to today so…

Food is already extremely cheap to produce. So cheap, that we waste approximately 50% of it, before it even gets into households. Yet we are still forced to use money to buy it in stores, instead of getting it at no or almost no cost. I think they will find ways to keep everything costing quite a bit.

A lot of this is because food is hard.

For example: people in developing countries throw away more food then in developed countries although it is relative to their income much more value. The reason is because they often do not own fridges, use a lot of rice which spoils fast or have difficulties with the food supply chain in other forms.

Food waste is a bad indicator for food value.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#782
post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it such a dramatic statement for Boris to claim that he no longer writes code? Are people on HN still typing out functions by hand one character at a time? It would be like a developer in 2020 claiming that he only writes assembly because compilers can’t be trusted. No one is taking that person seriously. If you chose a career in tech you made a decision to work in one of the fastest moving fields in human his…

>Are people on HN still typing out functions by hand one character at a time? Well I use tab completion, of course. And I copy-paste snippets from LLM more often than from SO now. But otherwise not much has changed in my career in the last 5 years. Is this different for you? I'm not fundamentally opposed to code generation, and I use LLMs for some taks, but I don't see myself vibecoding whole pages of production code…

Yes. If you're copy posting code from LLMs you're in the minority of people who are "in the past". Most people are generating most of their code in ~1-200 LOC chunks, reviewing it, adjusting as needed (usually with another prompt) and then opening a PR, which gets reviewed both my LLM and other teammates.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it such a dramatic statement for Boris to claim that he no longer writes code? Are people on HN still typing out functions by hand one character at a time? It would be like a developer in 2020 claiming that he only writes assembly because compilers can’t be trusted. No one is taking that person seriously. If you chose a career in tech you made a decision to work in one of the fastest moving fields in human his…

> Now it’s time to get over it, learn the new tools and adapt. No, thank you. I have used the new tools, determined that they aren't helpful to me, and set them aside as I would with any other bad tool. I don't feel the need to let hype take the steering wheel.

Let me guess, you used them 12 months ago?

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#784

I see many comments saying, "AI can't do X with 80-100% accuracy; therefore our professions are in good hands." While I don't want to sound overly pessimistic, the models are improving at a rapid rate. If asked ~3 years ago where the state of the models are today, it would sound like sci-fi if answered, "the models are creating full MVP apps in ~30 minutes with one prompt". The hurdles the models are facing now, like…

>If asked ~3 years ago where the state of the models are today, it would sound like sci-fi if answered, "the models are creating full MVP apps in ~30 minutes with one prompt".

The first one-shot app was created with ChatGPT in June 2023 - 3 years ago. In my experience, the current result of one-shotting apps is just as bad today as it was back then.

What “full MVP app” are you talking about? I know of none that have been anywhere near production ready. With all due respect, I think you’re portraying fantasy as reality. I would love to be proven wrong.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#785
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the expertise of engineers on the team that push it back on track. But how are you so sure your colleagues are not more "expert" than you? Prior LLMs there was room for very good engineers and mediocre engineers to work together in 99% of the companies out there. With LLMs, only the "best" engineers will survive, because nobody needs mediocre engineers anymore. This being HN, I imagine every engineer reading t…

Well almost 70% of the developers in the industry can't write a fizz buzz. But, besides coding skills (which some possess), the engineering, social, and business ones are close to non existent.

0% chance this is true as I work at a F500 where I can assure you that probably every developer can write fizz buzz.

I would bet my life and everyone I care abouts' lives that much more than 70% CAN write fizz buzz.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#786
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the expertise of engineers on the team that push it back on track. But how are you so sure your colleagues are not more "expert" than you? Prior LLMs there was room for very good engineers and mediocre engineers to work together in 99% of the companies out there. With LLMs, only the "best" engineers will survive, because nobody needs mediocre engineers anymore. This being HN, I imagine every engineer reading t…

> With LLMs, only the "best" engineers will survive, because nobody needs mediocre engineers anymore. LLMs are going to show that there's a huge divide in "engineers" between people who love "coding" and people who like "engineering". The group of people kicking and screaming the most are the people who love code and don't want to see their coding go away. These are typically the build vs buy folks. "We can't use any…

I disagree with most of this. I'm kicking and screaming pretty hard, and yet I'm not one of the "I can do it better" folks. My whole career has been in open source. I'm all about choosing the right tool. I'm also tech lead on a team of seven, so I'm not writing a lot of code anyway. What I am doing all day is sending AI-generated code back to be rewritten, rethought, re-architected. I'm starting to think we would get more done if nobody on my team used Copilot.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nope, just knowledge workers. Nope, just a specific kind. Those who developed and cultivated only a very specific skill set at the expense of all others. I used to think being a generalist, and having persued technical roles with a people facing element was to my detriment, but it’s turned out to be the best decision I ever made.

I had the opposite thought. Being a generalist was very useful to me 5 years ago. Now AI models have made everyone a generalist. That wide but not terribly deep skillset was immediately devalued by the AI models. You can argue that the models fuck up 20 percent of the time, or that they make poor code but there is a massive part for the industry that is totally fine with that and I think people ignore it to their det…

For context: I came from hardware, Linux, networking, telecoms, and datacenter infrastructure, not software development. I always wanted to go deep, but in practice my brain dragged me across many instead, which unintentionally made me very broad. I kept ending up in organisations where I was pushed back into such roles because its apparently where my "value" is.

I give that context because unlike a lot of you, I’m not a world class FAANG engineer and never will be. It is from this context all of my thoughts on AI flow. I work with people who are trying to use AI to produce work involving entire markets, roles, skillsets and technologies they don't even know exist, let alone understand.

> I had the opposite thought.

Until I recently got pulled back deep into engineering despite not being hands on for close to a decade, so did I. I was pulled in not because of any pure technical capability but instead because it's been recognised the team requires more. The skills I thought served only to help me stay employed in any role in the most basic roles are increasingly turning out to be things other's do not have and are becoming increasingly important.

These are skills I always assumed crucial to “baseline competency” for everyone, but yet where a significant amount of them do not, and these individuals are now finding themselves in positions where they are less useful than me as a result. Many of them can not simply be acquired from AI either, and require years of active growth and practice.

> Being a generalist was very useful to me 5 years ago. Now AI models have made everyone a generalist.

I think they could, but have not. Not at a scale required for me to have significant concern.

AI works as well as the context you can provide, and you don't know what you don’t know. If the context is shallow, so to will be the output, even when it looks convincing and that “looks convincing” part I believe is the most dangerous part.

As an example; I've been (recently) attached to an engineering team, despite last holding that title pre-2015, after AI assisted work contributed to a multi million dollar contract loss. A customer experienced an outage, it was "fixed" and everyone moved on. A month later another outage occurred of a greater scale. A huge amount of time was wasted doubling down on the original AI finding, because the actual root cause had not been identified or understood, because it had been "fixed". Turns out AI had identified and "fixed" a symptom, not a root cause.

I was able to identify and resolve the real issue because I had wider operational and infrastructure context the team lacked, but the damage was done. Trust was gone, the client lost, and layoffs will follow. Those layoffs will be “because of AI,” but not any "10x'ing" of productivity. Instead it will be because plausible but wrong work made it into production and hid a very real problem as a result.

That’s the issue with AI as I see it now. It generates answers that survive initial scrutiny while completely missing wider context leading to cases where more impactful but hidden problems are introduced.

> That wide but not terribly deep skillset was immediately devalued by the AI models.

Perhaps “generalist” was the wrong word here.

Most "engineers" I have worked with are extremely deep in their area and surprisingly limited outside it. Even with AI, they struggle to move beyond their specialty because they lack broader foundations underneath not just modern infrastructure, but a range of areas equally important to the health of a business. My advantage has never been being the best engineer in the room, I knew early in my career I’d never compete with the engineer who can patch our kernel before upstream does, despite wishing I could.

What ended up mattering instead was becoming the "95% guy" across infrastructure, networking, systems, operations, business, customer success, and people management that allows me to work with people/organisations and ultimately connect dots in a way even the best engineers I have worked with can not. AI can help you develop skills in areas you don't have, but starting with most of it in areas in which people have exactly none, and where people seem extremely resistant to developing it with or without AI, has me significantly further ahead in the curve. Ironically, at least in my experience so far, AI has made that more valuable, not less.

> they make poor code

I consider this to be the least important part. We have testing, review, and process for that.

I believe (and have instructed juniors as such) that the real value of valuable technical people has never been producing rockstar code, or being a clone of Linus. It's in having a deep foundational understanding of the building blocks underpinning the now endless layers of abstraction, understanding consequences, tradeoffs, failure patterns, business impact, customer communication, customer wants and needs, and ultimately I guess to sum it up, organisational reality.

This feels more important than ever when they can generate plausible looking technical output instantly that they may be able to validate, but equally produce plausible output in a huge range of areas they absolutely can not, but for which their successes in code have led them to believe they can. Because they underestimate what they don't know and in fact often assume they know far more than they do with no real basis for such a belief.

On the whole, I think I would end my thoughts like this.

For years I lived with the stress that "rockstar" engineers would lead to me eventually becoming irrelevant, much in the same way I might fear AI. So far, being 95% across customers, leadership, sales, support, engineering, and business strategy without losing the technical depth underneath it has meant this fear was unfounded and in fact put me ahead of them. I believe I am not isolated in this, and that in fact we will see more of it.

All else aside, my roles as of the last decade often require me to be in the room and working with humans. AI has not changed this, and there is no current indication it will. The requirement will be that I continue to remain in the room, only now with AI. This is for many reasons including regulatory, because portions of what I do involve systems that if mishandled could lead to more than just a loss of profit. There may be less of these roles, but as it stands I see nothing to indicate they will not exist.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about autonomous drones then? They are not planes? The real reason we have pilots in commerical jets is that they are a failsafe because a mistake in your automated system can kill 100+ people and guess what? It still does from time to time even with a human piloting the "beast." It is not impossible to have fully automated planes. We just cannot afford to make any mistakes otherwise people will die so we keep p…

YMMV but an LLM can hullicinate bug in programmed medical devices which may kill people in unexpected ways

Compliance policies are very strict for industries like aviation and medical devices. You cannot just throw Claude at it legally speaking

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#789

I've consulted with some big companies on AI strategy. I tell them there are two approaches to AI. 1) Train AI to replace human work. This gives you 50% quality for 10% cost. 2) Train AI to assist human workers. This gives you 200% quality for 110% cost. Most companies will go with option 1, and it's a race to the bottom. Eventually, someone will go with option 2 and gather up all of the pieces and take over the mark…

Do you have any basis for these numbers or claims or just took it out or your backside and presented it as facts?

What companies do you consult and on what

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#790
post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Opus 4.8 and GPT 5.5 and haven't suffered from hallucinations in months. But we also put a lot of effort into our harness.

Those models simply don't hallucinate if you use them properly in any form. The only way they _might_ hallucinate is if you use the web based chat interface and give them zero context.

Ah the old “you’re holding it wrong” argument.
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