If LLMs Have Human-Like Attributes, Then So Does Age of Empires II
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Re: If LLMs Have Human-Like Attributes, Then So Does Age of Empires II
#52I'm not sure who this kind of thing is aimed at. I think the majority of people who are happy to anthropomorphise LLMs from a philosophical point of view (rather than those who just do it for convenience, the same way you might a cat or dog or stupid thermostat that never works right), are already completely happy with the notion that a computer game might have elements that are human like. They've already accepted t…
> I'm not sure who this kind of thing is aimed at
My guess would be it is aimed at those who are falling for the marketing from the AI companies that these LLM's are far more than they are. That they are 'intelligent' that they have 'emerging human like properties because of that intelligence.'
Re: If LLMs Have Human-Like Attributes, Then So Does Age of Empires II
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whether LLMs could be conscious or not is basically a weekly conversation for me, but I've never had a conversation about whether a chess model is conscious. I suspect that there is a large group of "mainstream" people for whom LLMs raise questions about consciousness that other kinds of models do not. It might be the case that hardcore model philosophy types think that chess models could be conscious, but I think mu…
On what grounds would someone establish than an LLM could be conscious but a sufficiently large/complex transformer model aimed at chess would not be conscious?
The difference is that LLMs may or may not be sentient in the domain of human language, which we can relate to, unlike the domain of chess.
Re: If LLMs Have Human-Like Attributes, Then So Does Age of Empires II
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whether LLMs could be conscious or not is basically a weekly conversation for me, but I've never had a conversation about whether a chess model is conscious. I suspect that there is a large group of "mainstream" people for whom LLMs raise questions about consciousness that other kinds of models do not. It might be the case that hardcore model philosophy types think that chess models could be conscious, but I think mu…
On what grounds would someone establish than an LLM could be conscious but a sufficiently large/complex transformer model aimed at chess would not be conscious?
It might not even need a transformer.
A specific pattern of self-referencing data could be seen (or not) as low-level consciousness in the future, when we know what consciousness exactly is.
It might be that stockfish is already something future scientists would define as "conscious".
Altough it is diffucult for me to Imagine that specific example.
Re: If LLMs Have Human-Like Attributes, Then So Does Age of Empires II
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who is we? I do not believe chess models are conscious. I would think this is the most common position.
"we" is the set of people who believe that machines can potentially be conscious.
I believe that machines could potentially be conscious, and don't buy for a second that chess algorithms or LLMs could be themselves.
Re: If LLMs Have Human-Like Attributes, Then So Does Age of Empires II
#56Either human-like attributes can be described using physics or they are magic. If they can be described using physics then they can be simulated. If they can be simulated then they can be simulated in any Turing complete system, include AoE II.
Re: If LLMs Have Human-Like Attributes, Then So Does Age of Empires II
#57Either human-like attributes can be described using physics or they are magic. If they can be described using physics then they can be simulated. If they can be simulated then they can be simulated in any Turing complete system, include AoE II.
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Re: If LLMs Have Human-Like Attributes, Then So Does Age of Empires II
#58I see a lot of this on Substack these days. LLM enhanced essays in deep language about functional equivalence between mental states as they're known in humans and in human brains, and counterparts that exist in information processing LLMs do. And so the argument on Substact runs down the list of brain events, the list of seemingly analogous processing events, and declares equivalence. Something about it seems to abus…
Seems like you think AI psychosis has taken over Substack? For anyone wondering what the answer is: You can argue whatever you want (and people will argue both sides), but it's almost all bullshit that dances around the big question. Either AI is smart enough to replace us, in which case it's pretty smart. Or it's not, and it's just good at faking it but can't solve real problem very often. It might be smart by searc…
>Seems like you think AI psychosis has taken over Substack?
I wasn't touching the question of psychosis one way or the other, though it's an interesting question in its own right. (I have seen one account dedicated to defending a personal deep friendship with Claude and a few others analogizing our ignorance of LLM welfare to historical disregard for African Americans, which I think is a bit much. Most cases I think are just wrong but short of full on psychosis. I think there are likely psychosis cases out there but probably one-offs).
And I know Substack covers a lot of stuff so even just AI talk is a slice of everything, and whatever psychosis on that subject a smaller slice of that slice. But using LLMs to make overextended arguments about LLMs being conscious is popular right now, more popular than it is well substantiated I think.
I agree you raised a big question, but I think yours is one of many big questions: whether some future version of LLMs might literally be conscious is also a big question and not a moot one in the way you seem to be suggesting. I think that what you're right about is that replaceability renders moot any question of whether it's ability comes from being "actually" intelligent.
Re: If LLMs Have Human-Like Attributes, Then So Does Age of Empires II
#59this paper makes a lot of modest, carefully hedged, and reasonable claims.
in its tone however it's written as if it's a brutal takedown of... somebody's perspective. It's hard to tell whose or what perspective exactly. Maybe I'm just misreading the writing style.
(Personally, I think the general case here is one of the better objections to computationalism about consciousness. You can make it even more absurd.
There exists some isomorphism between the velocities of the molecules in a glass of water, and the states of a Turing machine simulating a human mind. So is the glass of water conscious? Actually there are many such isomorphisms to many possible conscious minds, so is every glass of water simultaneously having every possible conscious experience?)
Re: If LLMs Have Human-Like Attributes, Then So Does Age of Empires II
#60This is a very strange take. Almost like a conclusion you'd reach if you were told about a chatbot and AoEII but never interacted with them yourself.
It's a take that is just disconnected from reality.
Ask a LLM whether bombing hiroshima was justified and you'll likely get a nuanced response. Ask AoEII the same...and well it doesn't even have an interface to ask that let alone answer.
...the entire premise is just gibberish