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Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap

yon-lang.org

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Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap

#41

Post by ModernMech »

danieltanfh95 wrote: post #35
jrmg wrote: post #5

Just a comment: this sounds a lot like when someone I knew mildly succumbed to AI psychosis, and thought he, with Gemini, had made some physics/metaphysics breakthrough. If you’re losing sleep and feeling distressed or euphoric, maybe lay off for a few days, no matter how hard that is. Talk to friends and/or family about unimportant things. Get outside for a while. Go back to old hobbies (reading, hiking, just going…

There is nothing physics/metaphysics about this. If you don’t understand the terms, don’t pretend you do and write slop as a comment, it is really not that different from using LLM to generate slop.

"If you don’t understand the terms, don’t pretend you do"

The comment you're replying to explicitly says "This language looks interesting, but I don’t understand the concepts." so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Their note about physics/metaphysics was about "someone [they] knew", not TFA.

Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap

#42

Post by solomonb »

omegafixedpoint wrote: post #30

A few notes, because this is obviously vibe coded, and does not work in many ways. 1. Yon's documentation mentions "Homotopy type theory:" > the runnable HoTT fragment is refl/pair/fst/snd These are basic features of martin-lof type theory, not homotopy type theory. The documentation makes no reference of an interval type, which is generally the way to go for decidable type-checking in HoTT without univalence as an o…

How does `refl` work if its not even dependently typed?

Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap

#43

Post by nathan_compton »

mccoyb wrote: post #3

I'm not sure where or how to convey this, because I've seen several of these languages designed with AI, documentation created using AI, etc -- posted on Hacker News in the last months or so, and I've responded to each one with roughly the same feedback (and I'm assuming good faith: that the intent is that the poster wishes to grow as a language designer). Your audience, or whoever you aim your work at, should be tre…

I have to second this. I find the AI written documentation extremely loathsome, hard to read, and somehow both pretentious and lazy.

Please, I beg everyone, stop posting AI slop.

Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap

#44

Post by VoidWarranty »

mccoyb wrote: post #3

I'm not sure where or how to convey this, because I've seen several of these languages designed with AI, documentation created using AI, etc -- posted on Hacker News in the last months or so, and I've responded to each one with roughly the same feedback (and I'm assuming good faith: that the intent is that the poster wishes to grow as a language designer). Your audience, or whoever you aim your work at, should be tre…

This reads to me like someone's mania project. I wish OP the best and hope they can get some rest.

Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap

#45

Post by TimorousBestie »

nathan_compton wrote: post #43
mccoyb wrote: post #3

I'm not sure where or how to convey this, because I've seen several of these languages designed with AI, documentation created using AI, etc -- posted on Hacker News in the last months or so, and I've responded to each one with roughly the same feedback (and I'm assuming good faith: that the intent is that the poster wishes to grow as a language designer). Your audience, or whoever you aim your work at, should be tre…

I have to second this. I find the AI written documentation extremely loathsome, hard to read, and somehow both pretentious and lazy. Please, I beg everyone, stop posting AI slop.

Regrettably, the beatings are going to continue until morale improves.

Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap

#46

Post by solomonb »

As someone genuinely interested in programming language design, type theory, and category theory this sort of thing really saddens me. There is so much passion and rigor that has gone into developing these fields. Chucking all their jargon into an ai slop blender, imo, is actually incredibly disrespectful to those who have worked so hard.

Imagine someone honestly interested in learning about category theory but not yet knowing where to start. Projects like this only serve to muddy the waters obscuring paths to actual learning and giving the impression that the subject is a joke.

Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap

#47

Post by TimorousBestie »

canyp wrote: post #29

> Content addressing is extensionality made physical (chapter 11) Actually, that's in chapter 12; 11 is the standard library. Maybe the LLM got confused because the chapters are 0-indexed. I was curious about that topic but it seems over my head. I don't think it works outside of mathematics? In programming, one can have two objects that are identical in both structure and value but have different identities. It's wh…

> Why does the handle need floating point?

I don’t know if Yon does this (the documentation is gibberish) but it’s possible to use f64 NaNs to hold convenient metadata. I had a professor who wrote a bespoke teaching language (roughly based on Scheme) that did that.

Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap

#48

Post by solomonb »

skulk wrote: post #17
mccoyb wrote: post #3

I'm not sure where or how to convey this, because I've seen several of these languages designed with AI, documentation created using AI, etc -- posted on Hacker News in the last months or so, and I've responded to each one with roughly the same feedback (and I'm assuming good faith: that the intent is that the poster wishes to grow as a language designer). Your audience, or whoever you aim your work at, should be tre…

> Your audience, or whoever you aim your work at, should be treated with respect. I just want to amplify this point. As I was reading this, the LLMisms kept jumping out at me and each one felt like the author looking at me and deciding that my time spent reading this prose wasn't actually worth anything to them. OP: I want YOUR thoughts, not the next token predictions of a gigantic pile of matrix multiplications. I w…

Personally I don't want to read the codebase AND book of someone 3 weeks into a mania focused on a subject it is unclear they have any prior experience with. Its disrespectful for someone to think they can produce something worthy of consuming another human's time under those constraints.

Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap

#49

Post by ModernMech »

Syzygies wrote: post #40
omegafixedpoint wrote: post #30

A few notes, because this is obviously vibe coded, and does not work in many ways. 1. Yon's documentation mentions "Homotopy type theory:" > the runnable HoTT fragment is refl/pair/fst/snd These are basic features of martin-lof type theory, not homotopy type theory. The documentation makes no reference of an interval type, which is generally the way to go for decidable type-checking in HoTT without univalence as an o…

As a mathematician, this reads to me as the most informed comment. Various priors inoculate me from feeling some of the rejection expressed in other comments. I knew Sammy Eilenberg, perhaps the most famous mathematician to work at Columbia University. He hired me. With friends, I ran into him one night out in NYC, and in his 70's we all stayed out past dawn. His late career focused on topos theory, and everyone in t…

Rapid prototyping was always possible in PL design. It was very possible to go from idea to a working proof of concept language with a couple weeks' work. There are thousands of POC projects like this that popped up before LLMs existed.

What LLMs are doing now is allowing people to take prototypes and to publish them with an entire 200 page book no one (not even the author) has read, and a polished-looking website filled with marketing verbiage and a cute logo.

What would be interesting to me would be to see the process of rapidly refining the design, but I keep checking back on these "Here's my exciting new 400kLOC LLM language project I made in 3 weeks" and they all seem to die very shortly after the splashy announcements a few weeks later, as the author seemingly lost interest.

Which is not surprising because that's the way it always went with little languages -- writing a language has always been a marathon, not a sprint. It's just before, a 200 page book was an indicator of author dedication. Now, a 200 page book is just more bytes for digital kindling.

Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap

#50

Post by tliltocatl »

omegafixedpoint wrote: post #30

A few notes, because this is obviously vibe coded, and does not work in many ways. 1. Yon's documentation mentions "Homotopy type theory:" > the runnable HoTT fragment is refl/pair/fst/snd These are basic features of martin-lof type theory, not homotopy type theory. The documentation makes no reference of an interval type, which is generally the way to go for decidable type-checking in HoTT without univalence as an o…

I really appreciate this comment. It is easy to dismiss something as AI slop when it looks and smells like AI slop, but pinpointing actual errors is much more valuable. As solomonb said in a sibling comment, "Imagine someone honestly interested in learning about category theory".
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