Just a comment: this sounds a lot like when someone I knew mildly succumbed to AI psychosis, and thought he, with Gemini, had made some physics/metaphysics breakthrough. If you’re losing sleep and feeling distressed or euphoric, maybe lay off for a few days, no matter how hard that is. Talk to friends and/or family about unimportant things. Get outside for a while. Go back to old hobbies (reading, hiking, just going…
Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap
21–30 of 93 posts
Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap
#22Just a comment: this sounds a lot like when someone I knew mildly succumbed to AI psychosis, and thought he, with Gemini, had made some physics/metaphysics breakthrough. If you’re losing sleep and feeling distressed or euphoric, maybe lay off for a few days, no matter how hard that is. Talk to friends and/or family about unimportant things. Get outside for a while. Go back to old hobbies (reading, hiking, just going…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leech_lattice
Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap
#23Could you name a few languages you had in mind while developing this, their respective problems, and how your language improves them, feature by feature? > Yon allocates into xleech2, a content-addressed heap whose geometry is the Leech lattice Λ24: exactly 196,560 slots per heap. What is the computational complexity of memory allocation into this Leech lattice? What applications did you have in mind where making all…
It's such a weird mixture of poetry and math that it's hard to tell what's going on. I suspect the author does not speak English as a first language (or at all?) and has used an LLM to generate this stuff.
Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap
#24You must not mix up technical mathematical words with softer prose words. For instance, "Yon's data model is categorical. A world is a category, a semantic site;" So if you want to define a world, I expect you to tell me how to supply objects + morphisms + the composition law + the site structure. I don't know what a "semantic site" is, just what a "site" is. You'd need to define it. Anyway, we then get to our first…
Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap
#25Just a comment: this sounds a lot like when someone I knew mildly succumbed to AI psychosis, and thought he, with Gemini, had made some physics/metaphysics breakthrough. If you’re losing sleep and feeling distressed or euphoric, maybe lay off for a few days, no matter how hard that is. Talk to friends and/or family about unimportant things. Get outside for a while. Go back to old hobbies (reading, hiking, just going…
Nope, and I actually learned about application of category theory to programming language in university.
I tried to get an idea about the main points, and then stumbled over
> a thing is what you can observe of it. > > [...] > > Content addressing is extensionality made physical (chapter 11): two values indistinguishable by observation are not merely equal, they are the same slot
That only works in a category because you have enough (a countably or uncountably infinite number) functions that you can compose and "test" so you don't need (or don't care) about the "value" itself.
But on a real computer that doesn't work, because you can't go beyond a countable number, and even then you run into the halting problem pretty soon. So equality in this model is not computable. Which is sort of bad if you want to somehow store values "in the same slot" just based on observability. It might work for string literals, and even for concatenated strings, but not in general.
Picking some random lattice (a lattice is a partially ordered structure with some extra conditions) as a base of addressing doesn't help...
So yes, crackpot AI slop. The words sort of make sense, but there's nothing solid behind it, and as soon as you look at details it falls apart.
Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap
#26Just a comment: this sounds a lot like when someone I knew mildly succumbed to AI psychosis, and thought he, with Gemini, had made some physics/metaphysics breakthrough. If you’re losing sleep and feeling distressed or euphoric, maybe lay off for a few days, no matter how hard that is. Talk to friends and/or family about unimportant things. Get outside for a while. Go back to old hobbies (reading, hiking, just going…
> Does this stuff make sense to other people? Nope, and I actually learned about application of category theory to programming language in university. I tried to get an idea about the main points, and then stumbled over > a thing is what you can observe of it. > > [...] > > Content addressing is extensionality made physical (chapter 11): two values indistinguishable by observation are not merely equal, they are the s…
Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap
#27You must not mix up technical mathematical words with softer prose words. For instance, "Yon's data model is categorical. A world is a category, a semantic site;" So if you want to define a world, I expect you to tell me how to supply objects + morphisms + the composition law + the site structure. I don't know what a "semantic site" is, just what a "site" is. You'd need to define it. Anyway, we then get to our first…
Hmm. Only responder taking this seriously and the account is created minutes ago.
Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap
#28You must not mix up technical mathematical words with softer prose words. For instance, "Yon's data model is categorical. A world is a category, a semantic site;" So if you want to define a world, I expect you to tell me how to supply objects + morphisms + the composition law + the site structure. I don't know what a "semantic site" is, just what a "site" is. You'd need to define it. Anyway, we then get to our first…
Hmm. Only responder taking this seriously and the account is created minutes ago.
Can't help I've just been a HN lurker so far :)
Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap
#29Actually, that's in chapter 12; 11 is the standard library. Maybe the LLM got confused because the chapters are 0-indexed.
I was curious about that topic but it seems over my head. I don't think it works outside of mathematics? In programming, one can have two objects that are identical in both structure and value but have different identities. It's why lisp has eq, eql, equal, etc. How'd you get around that other than adding an identity property?
Also:
> A handle, what your variables actually hold for strings, sections, lists, trees, is that slot index, carried as an f64
Why does the handle need floating point?
Re: Yon – a topos-oriented language with a content-addressed lattice heap
#301. Yon's documentation mentions "Homotopy type theory:"
> the runnable HoTT fragment is refl/pair/fst/snd
These are basic features of martin-lof type theory, not homotopy type theory. The documentation makes no reference of an interval type, which is generally the way to go for decidable type-checking in HoTT without univalence as an opaque axiom.
Pi types are mentioned, but Yon does not have dependent types. From what I can tell, they are polymorphic, maybe even just simply-typed (except for identity types under Pi). See here in the repo: https://github.com/yon-language/yon/blob/523e363a4a00e8da1410a2521b1d7d1309d360ce/frontend/ast.ml#L37
The datatype Ty only refers to other Ty's. Thus, it is not dependent. Terms cannot appear in types. Pi is explicitly indexed by a type defining its domain and codomain. A pi type is not a pi type if its codomain cannot depend on its domain.
2. Normalization can fail in Yon.
Yon's docs say that its universe of propositions has booleans (https://yon-lang.org/book/heyting-core?_highlight=prop). It also says its logic is intuitionistic (AKA, constructive). However, it also says the logical connectives on booleans are CLASSICAL. This implies law of excluded middle, which is NOT constructive without careful sandboxing (e.g., Linear logic). Yon dangerously allows propositions to be lifted to booleans. If I am interpreting correctly (docs are very vague), this means propositions can be lifted to terms. This causes an obvious failure of normalization due to assumed proof irrelevance (otherwise Prop would not be distinguished) (also see Coquand's paper on this https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.08174).
3. Yon's type definitional equality does not actually reduce types.
See here. This is the function used by the type-checker to check if types are equal. https://github.com/yon-language/yon/blob/523e363a4a00e8da141...
No reduction actually occurs, conveniently because none of the types actually contain terms (that is, it is simply typed). Yon claims to be dependently-typed. See this in the repo: https://github.com/yon-language/yon/blob/523e363a4a00e8da1410a2521b1d7d1309d360ce/frontend/ast.ml#L21
> Types in Yon Core kernel — the small dependent type theory used for the operational semantics.
Suppose I'm reading the source code wrong. Conveniently, the comment one line below reveals, once again, that the "type theory" is simply-typed:
> * T, U ::= Type_n universe of level n
> * | Pi(x:T). U dependent function
Pi types eliminate into a FIXED type that does not depend on x. This means there is also no purpose for having a universe hierarchy.
To confirm, I scoured the docs a bit for any examples using Pi types or Sigma types. I searched the docs, and could not find any, besides this example:
> world W { Code is X }> place Account in W { balance number }
> fun takes_sub(s: { a : Account where Pi(x: Account). Pi(y: Account). Id(Account, x, y) }): number { return 0 }
> fun main(): number { return 0 }
Notably, the identity is the only constructor for Ty indexed by a term. That is, Pi types can ONLY eliminate into the identity. What if I want my Pi type to eliminate into anything else living in Prop? e.g., an existential like \forall (x : Nat), \exists (y : Nat), x This project is clearly produced by AI, and clearly dangerously incorrect. Do not use this for anything serious.