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LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

human-in-the-loop.bearblog.dev

231–240 of 1001 posts

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#231

> when I step outside my area of deep knowledge I can no longer call BS on the agents It's still funny that 4 years into this mania the models can hallucinate basic ground truths, humans are increasingly not reviewing the output, and misusing LLMs where simple automation would suffice. My wife does project management and works with a lot of tech leads. They came to her with a project plan deck, and she started questi…

That’s why I use AI more like: Write a tool for me that does this. Instead of directly: do this. Preferably I would interweave code and AI queries where some function waits on prompt result too I think?? To avoid too big context hallucinations I mean that would work for my use cases. At least what I learned is that the less AI itself does in the context is the better so to say as critical LLM mistakes are approaching…

The crazy thing is how many people who can write code (with or without uAI) are in fact using the LLMs in the latter "go do this" mode.

There are a lot of non-tech people using these products in this manner.

Along these lines my friend is CTO at a non-tech firm and theres vibe coding happening in one department on a project that is going to churn $1M of tokens. Head of that department told him it's OK because instead of paying a SWE annual salary, they'll just pay $1M of tokens once forever.

People don't know what they don't know about software, SDLC, support, maintenance, etc. If code was something you write once and never think about again, most tech orgs could be 75% smaller.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#232
post #112
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the expertise of engineers on the team that push it back on track. But how are you so sure your colleagues are not more "expert" than you? Prior LLMs there was room for very good engineers and mediocre engineers to work together in 99% of the companies out there. With LLMs, only the "best" engineers will survive, because nobody needs mediocre engineers anymore. This being HN, I imagine every engineer reading t…

The corporations and executives are already winning if you swallowed the concept of 'rockstar' engineer. Sure there are more and less experienced engineers, but even interns can and often do provide good input and spot mistakes made by seniors. The 'rockstar' engineer at most tech companies simply equates to the somewhat autistic guy with a brown nose who's working 15 hour days for a pat on the head from management (…

For the most part there aren’t 10x engineers

But there are certainly 0.1x engineers

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#233

My career path is suprisingly similar to the author's. Weirdly enough, what he takes as the first pillar to fall is the one I see most undamaged currently. LLMs routinely fail at our business specifics: Local tax regulations, particularities of the accounting process, specifics of our ledger implementations. They're great at refactoring, translating between languages, tracing bugs on existing code even, but there is…

>> LLMs routinely fail at our business specifics: Local tax regulations, particularities of the accounting process, specifics of our ledger implementations.

My company also deals with a lot of complex regulations and domain-specific system implementations, which AIs used to struggle with. We were able to solve the problem with well-organized claude.md/agents.md files. On top of that we also implemented supermemory.ai, so newly made decisions are always recalled by AI agents when starting new sessions.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#234
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that the optimal state of society is for everyone to apply programming and logic etc. but the obvious final result of these developments is that no one will.

Maybe the artform will be lost, but surely humanity will inherently be more 'logical' and systems driven afterwards? Maybe using writing as an analogy is flawed, but most of humanity having 'writing' as a core skill did enable many other things, even if oral storytelling cultures suffered at its hand. At its core, tech is all about breaking through inefficiencies and barriers. Does it matter if people can't code pyth…

Sincerely, how is prompting an AI to build software for you building "logic and systems thinking"?

The thing many people are ringing the alarms over is the offloading of critical thinking and knowledge work to LLMs.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#235
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posting this under a burner so I don't dox myself: I work in FinTech on a regulated product. We have access to Mythos. Mythos identified part of our codebase that it confidently asserted was not complaint with a particular regulation and we were at grave risk by allowing it to operate the way it was. Except this was not the case, it had of course hallucinated what the regulation actually required (I know this because…

I've worked on projects in the airline and health industry which are highly regulated too. The regulations can be incredibly difficult to process and implement, and make sure you adhere to everything correctly. I've been involved in multiple scenarios where people have made false assertions about compliance or lack of. I'd still place a bet that the SOA models make _far_ less mistakes than humans.

> I'd still place a bet that the SOA models make _far_ less mistakes than humans.

Well too bad, the problem is that they also produce things much faster than humans so errors will compound quicker.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#236
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posting this under a burner so I don't dox myself: I work in FinTech on a regulated product. We have access to Mythos. Mythos identified part of our codebase that it confidently asserted was not complaint with a particular regulation and we were at grave risk by allowing it to operate the way it was. Except this was not the case, it had of course hallucinated what the regulation actually required (I know this because…

what am i missing? you take a spec and create tests, every little thing you use another ai to verify these tests against the spec you review the tests vs the spec (at one point human review) you put the tests off limits to change / wall them. you let the ai write the software that fulfills the tests. there will be some gaps where you repeat the cycle above if the tests fulfill the spec, the code will fulfill the spec

>you take a spec and create tests, every little thing

A spec detailed enough and unambiguous enough to be translated into machine execution deterministically is called code.

Unlike a compiler, AI can build with a spec that is not detailed enough or unambiguous enough: It does so by filling in the gaps with educated guesses.

This is safe if and only if you take the time to later read the output, understand what its guesses were, and judge wether they were acceptable. No AI can do this for you because the truth lies in your original intentions, which it does not have access to.

The jury is out there on how reliable and time consuming this is vs writing the code yourself; it is not immediately obvious that is faster or requires a smaller cognitive load.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#237
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posting this under a burner so I don't dox myself: I work in FinTech on a regulated product. We have access to Mythos. Mythos identified part of our codebase that it confidently asserted was not complaint with a particular regulation and we were at grave risk by allowing it to operate the way it was. Except this was not the case, it had of course hallucinated what the regulation actually required (I know this because…

I've worked on projects in the airline and health industry which are highly regulated too. The regulations can be incredibly difficult to process and implement, and make sure you adhere to everything correctly. I've been involved in multiple scenarios where people have made false assertions about compliance or lack of. I'd still place a bet that the SOA models make _far_ less mistakes than humans.

>I'd still place a bet that the SOA models make _far_ less mistakes than humans.

Genuine question: your top coder seems to be producing the most error-free code from your perspective, has the deepest knowledge of the architecture and codebase, and is faster on the trigger than the others.

But your top coder has proven and verifiable dementia, where they will confidently assume the existence of apis and code that do not exist, mix up the purpose of others and forget other things, and you can't predict when and how they will introduce errors into the system or the severity of such errors.

Are you really comfortable letting this person with dementia generate most of your codebase in the airline and health industry?

I also hope you have an iron-clad agreement that prevents the model provider from doing silent updates because all your evidence of correctness you collected thus far goes out the window in that case.

Another genuine question:

You have witnessed a human coder and the AI you're using make the same important mistake. Assuming you do not have the time and resources to retrain, fine tume, and test your frontier model:

Who would you trust not to make the same mistake multiple times in the future after you have warned them that their job depends on it, the AI or the human?

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#238

> Maybe I should consider transforming my woodworking hobby into a profession... Whatever your feelings on the future of the industry are, it's hard to imagine you'll find more professional success in artisan woodworking than artisan software.

look at layoffs.fyi. chances are he will be laid off pretty soon. and if not tomorrow, give it couple extra years until AI gets even better. it is one-way road, down the hill. not woodworking. farming. get a pot of land and grow your own food. do not participate in economy at all. that's the only survival.

You are not allowed to have land without participating in the economy. The government forced you to acquire land by buying it, and to pay taxes in dollars.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#239
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posting this under a burner so I don't dox myself: I work in FinTech on a regulated product. We have access to Mythos. Mythos identified part of our codebase that it confidently asserted was not complaint with a particular regulation and we were at grave risk by allowing it to operate the way it was. Except this was not the case, it had of course hallucinated what the regulation actually required (I know this because…

I've worked on projects in the airline and health industry which are highly regulated too. The regulations can be incredibly difficult to process and implement, and make sure you adhere to everything correctly. I've been involved in multiple scenarios where people have made false assertions about compliance or lack of. I'd still place a bet that the SOA models make _far_ less mistakes than humans.

For some reason, tons of people seem to be in camps at both extremes. It's either "AI sucks don't trust it!" or "AI is so much better than humans!"

But the most reasonable take, which I'm happy to see reflected in so many comments in this thread, is… use both.

Do an AI pass, and have humans verify, and vice versa. Let the humans drive the AI. Then the unique shortcomings of each party can be covered by the other's strengths.

Re: LLMs are eroding my software engineering career and I don't know what to do

#240

I read all the posts in this thread - but no one has a good idea to avoid software developer obsolescence. My guess is this profession has 5 more years. It was a good run while it lasted. All the other white collar workers are in the same boat. A pillar of the economy is going to be destroyed with no obvious replacement in sight.

5 more years? That’s quite pessimistic, given how much evidence we have that LLM coding has as much of a long tail problem as any other tech we’ve created.
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