So we're in the $6 Uber ride era of AI still?
Not comparable - drivers and space in a city is inherently limited, while there is no limit on GPU manufacturers, datacenter probividers, or LLM companies
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Anthropic/OpenAI may be spending more than $1000 for every $100 you pay them
51–60 of 89 posts
Re: Anthropic/OpenAI may be spending more than $1000 for every $100 you pay them
#52And how much money are they making off our non-training data? Or what is the ROI short and long term of that massive valuable data set? Surely there's at least a valuable subset of ideas that if executed better than the incumbents nets them massive value.
I find it disingenuous when people narrow in and focus on the cost of tokens as if thats the only way the companies make money.
They are doing a massive data grab and stealing and thieving your IP and data, non-training data sharing cannot be opted out of.
Re: Anthropic/OpenAI may be spending more than $1000 for every $100 you pay them
#53Hang on to your wallet, you ain't seen nothing yet. The true cost of AI won't be revealed until after a large portion of the customer base has become "hooked" on it.
“Hooked” is doing a lot of work there. I’m happily paying $200/mo for Claude code. The tokens I use would be >$10k at API rates. I’m building the best products of my life, and multiple of them in parallel. I’m doing better creative work, finally realizing a game idea I’ve had no time for, etc. If this level of usage goes to $500/mo… I’ll be out. It’s worth what I’m paying, but hey I went a decade without writing that…
I interpreted hooked to mean “the degradation of skills has made it significantly harder to transition back to doing things with auto-complete/by hand”.
Could be wrong though.
Re: Anthropic/OpenAI may be spending more than $1000 for every $100 you pay them
#54The headline claim assumes that Anthropic is operating the API at cost, and losing massive amounts of money on subscriptions My own impression based on inference prices for deepseek or other "open" models in the 1T range (including providers like DeepInfra with no obvious reason to subsidize their API costs) is that Anthropic is offering subscriptions at cost (on average, power users are a bit more expensive, casual…
The assumptions are so much worse than that:
> Methodology & assumptions: No caching
This is absolutely absurd. Claude code is of course using the cache (and this can be verified by looking at the traffic). It would be an incredibly stupid design to resend the whole input without a cache for every input, every tool use, etc..
Re: Anthropic/OpenAI may be spending more than $1000 for every $100 you pay them
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
“Hooked” is doing a lot of work there. I’m happily paying $200/mo for Claude code. The tokens I use would be >$10k at API rates. I’m building the best products of my life, and multiple of them in parallel. I’m doing better creative work, finally realizing a game idea I’ve had no time for, etc. If this level of usage goes to $500/mo… I’ll be out. It’s worth what I’m paying, but hey I went a decade without writing that…
I interpreted hooked to mean “the degradation of skills has made it significantly harder to transition back to doing things with auto-complete/by hand”. Could be wrong though.
Fair enough. Though in that framing I’d question whether SWE skills degrade that quickly, or are unrecoverable. I took a year off from writing software… I was fine.
Re: Anthropic/OpenAI may be spending more than $1000 for every $100 you pay them
#56I really don't now how these other code bases are structured. Our team ran cc-usage and our cost is right about what we pay as our monthly license. This is only those on the team pro side. Our code base is not small, millions of lines of code. It does not take $65 in tokens to solve an issue. I'm running 3-4 claude code terminals at the same time and i'm still pretty close to what it would cost per a token for usage.…
Also worst case. If it takes $65 to make one PR? I’m paying $100-$300 for a human to make one PR. There was zero math around the human developer cost saved.
Re: Anthropic/OpenAI may be spending more than $1000 for every $100 you pay them
#57So we're in the $6 Uber ride era of AI still?
Uber rides were never going to get cheaper over time without robot drivers. A software product is not the same thing. It could get cheaper to serve over time.
Re: Anthropic/OpenAI may be spending more than $1000 for every $100 you pay them
#58The headline claim assumes that Anthropic is operating the API at cost, and losing massive amounts of money on subscriptions My own impression based on inference prices for deepseek or other "open" models in the 1T range (including providers like DeepInfra with no obvious reason to subsidize their API costs) is that Anthropic is offering subscriptions at cost (on average, power users are a bit more expensive, casual…
The assumptions are so much worse than that: > Methodology & assumptions: No caching This is absolutely absurd. Claude code is of course using the cache (and this can be verified by looking at the traffic). It would be an incredibly stupid design to resend the whole input without a cache for every input, every tool use, etc..
The no-caching is explained in the linked conversation. The numbers are from actual use.
Re: Anthropic/OpenAI may be spending more than $1000 for every $100 you pay them
#59As usual, there’s no factual basis for the claims other than “I made it up” and author doesn’t seem to have technical experience with ML experience. A lot of weasel words doing all the heavy lifting here.
The data is given and not made up. The data based on actual use and on analysis of public numbers.
Re: Anthropic/OpenAI may be spending more than $1000 for every $100 you pay them
#60The future of AI is ads, free will have lots of ads and eventually go away. Low paid tier will have a few ads, the $2000 tier no ads. I just hope local llms keep getting better and ways to make them run faster on consumer devices improves
Sorry, you need to sign up for HN+ if you don’t want to be downvoted when pointing out the obvious enshittification that will occur with LLMs