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Scientists ejected from diabetes conference for distributing journal reprints

arstechnica.com

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Re: Scientists ejected from diabetes conference for distributing journal reprints

#61

Post by ModernMech »

nandomrumber wrote: post #48
uniqueuid wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The causal loop you mentioned makes social science hard, but I’d argue that falsification and hypothesis-driven research can still work. Otherwise all the behavioral targeting Meta and Google and co are doing would not work.

If private enterprise want to fund marketing research, fine. It’s the social science academics living off the public purse I take issue with.

So what? I pay taxes too, and I want social scientists to be paid using tax dollars for the work they do, which I find valuable. There's plenty I take issue with my taxes being paid for but I just put up with it because we live in a society where my priorities aren't the only ones. Why can't you take that approach with social scientists?

Re: Scientists ejected from diabetes conference for distributing journal reprints

#63

Post by embedding-shape »

roenxi wrote: post #56
embedding-shape wrote: post #39

> “They physically grabbed us, forced us out of the conference center, and now are telling us we can no longer attend this meeting,” Kelly told MedPage Today, which first reported the incident. “They’re taking our lanyards. It really has come to this in America. Censorship is real. America needs to stand up. Scientists, stand up. Physicians, stand up.” It's become very evident from the outside that the best time to s…

This might be reading too much in to minor drama at a diabetes conference. The gentleman in question could have gone to protest outside (and probably did). The article linked doesn't even say what exactly they were protesting (beyond a rather vague "attacks on scientific research" which could mean a lot of things).

> This might be reading too much in to minor drama at a diabetes conference.

Indeed, my view and perspective is built by a culmination of recent events, not based on a single event. The widespread self-censorship Americans currently engage in (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48434091) is also a large part of it.

I don't have any "index of events" handy that could explain why I think the slope is so evident currently, but based on the ongoing journalistic suppression, individual self-censorship, centralization of control and power in governments and society together with lots of other smaller incidents like this one and others, makes it pretty clear to me at least.

Re: Scientists ejected from diabetes conference for distributing journal reprints

#64

Post by iandanforth »

A reminder to anyone who finds themselves in this kind of situation, do not engage with the rhetoric of the enemy. You cannot win an argument where they set the rules. So here, where they question whether or not they were "protesting" distracts from the reality of a censorious organization that will weaponize regulations it controls without good faith. Instead you need a simple, memorable statement of condemnation which is repeated consistently and a clear action which those who hear it can take in response.

"This organization is controlled by Trump loyalists. They are not scientists. You do not owe them respect. Speak over them. Let no manipulation go unchallenged or derided."

Re: Scientists ejected from diabetes conference for distributing journal reprints

#65

Post by mcphage »

emilfihlman wrote: post #47
embedding-shape wrote: post #39

> “They physically grabbed us, forced us out of the conference center, and now are telling us we can no longer attend this meeting,” Kelly told MedPage Today, which first reported the incident. “They’re taking our lanyards. It really has come to this in America. Censorship is real. America needs to stand up. Scientists, stand up. Physicians, stand up.” It's become very evident from the outside that the best time to s…

>“They were respectfully given the opportunity to cease this behavior and chose not to which is why they were escorted out.” I understand the want to protest, but you do know that misrepresentation doesn't help, right? Refusing to cease by an even organisers order will, yes, result in being escorted out forcefully by security.

> given the opportunity to cease this behavior

What behavior exactly were they being given an opportunity to cease?

Re: Scientists ejected from diabetes conference for distributing journal reprints

#66

Post by ModernMech »

emilfihlman wrote: post #47
embedding-shape wrote: post #39

> “They physically grabbed us, forced us out of the conference center, and now are telling us we can no longer attend this meeting,” Kelly told MedPage Today, which first reported the incident. “They’re taking our lanyards. It really has come to this in America. Censorship is real. America needs to stand up. Scientists, stand up. Physicians, stand up.” It's become very evident from the outside that the best time to s…

>“They were respectfully given the opportunity to cease this behavior and chose not to which is why they were escorted out.” I understand the want to protest, but you do know that misrepresentation doesn't help, right? Refusing to cease by an even organisers order will, yes, result in being escorted out forcefully by security.

That was the intended result. The story isn't that people were escorted out, it's that they knew they were going to be escorted out and proceeded anyway. That they felt the need to break the rules is the story, because... why did they feel so strongly? Maybe there's a reason behind it?

Re: Scientists ejected from diabetes conference for distributing journal reprints

#67

Post by adrian_b »

roenxi wrote: post #56
embedding-shape wrote: post #39

> “They physically grabbed us, forced us out of the conference center, and now are telling us we can no longer attend this meeting,” Kelly told MedPage Today, which first reported the incident. “They’re taking our lanyards. It really has come to this in America. Censorship is real. America needs to stand up. Scientists, stand up. Physicians, stand up.” It's become very evident from the outside that the best time to s…

This might be reading too much in to minor drama at a diabetes conference. The gentleman in question could have gone to protest outside (and probably did). The article linked doesn't even say what exactly they were protesting (beyond a rather vague "attacks on scientific research" which could mean a lot of things).

Their so-called "protest" was just distributing an article already published in the journal of the medical association to which this conference is attached, which probably discussed matters of interest for the attendance, like the future of research financing in this domain.

I can hardly think of a more peaceful form of protest, which only intended to make aware the participants about the content of the article. Those who were not interested presumably refused to take the article copy or did not read it.

Even on HN you can still see claims that USA is a "free" country where anyone can say anything about the government, without consequences. This example shows clearly that this claim is false.

Re: Scientists ejected from diabetes conference for distributing journal reprints

#68

Post by watwut »

embedding-shape wrote: post #58
donkey_brains wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree with what you are saying, but I have grown too cynical to believe it will ever happen. American capitalism has been very effective at ensuring 2 outcomes: - The population is kept just comfortable enough to become complacent, with easy access to intoxicants, brainrot media and fast food. Now there are even robots that can do our thinking for us. A large percentage of people are brainwashed into thi…

What chills me the most, is the self-censorship Americans engage on social media today, everywhere online. It seems Americans today are afraid of talking clearly about general strikes, protesting, rape, sexual violence, censorship and more "taboo" topics, and I'm guessing it's because the platforms kind of shadow-ban people quickly for it. Growing up, I always heard Americans bragging about freedom of speech, and how…

> Americans today are afraid of talking clearly about general strikes, protesting, rape, sexual violence, censorship

Americans are talking about protesting, rape, sexual violence, censorship all the time ... and I mean literally all sides - liberals, conservatives, leftists, feminists, MAGA ...

Re: Scientists ejected from diabetes conference for distributing journal reprints

#70

Post by roenxi »

adrian_b wrote: post #67
roenxi wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be reading too much in to minor drama at a diabetes conference. The gentleman in question could have gone to protest outside (and probably did). The article linked doesn't even say what exactly they were protesting (beyond a rather vague "attacks on scientific research" which could mean a lot of things).

Their so-called "protest" was just distributing an article already published in the journal of the medical association to which this conference is attached, which probably discussed matters of interest for the attendance, like the future of research financing in this domain. I can hardly think of a more peaceful form of protest, which only intended to make aware the participants about the content of the article. Thos…

I'm no doctor, but I suspect the conference organisers wanted the conference to focus on diabetes. Rather than exploring whether the USA is a "free" country where anyone can say anything about the government, without consequences.
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