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Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

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Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#451

Post by alex_be »

fakedang wrote: post #350
m-ee wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best intelligence apparatus in the world missed the Oct 7 planning which Egyptian intelligence noticed, told the Israelis about directly, and still went ignored?

This is what I ask everyone who thinks October 7 was an attack launched by Hamas of its own volition. Anyone who's been to and seen the Gaza border knows how impossible it is to cross - unless of course there was some inside permittance.

I've been and I've seen. It is a fence. A very long fence. You can't cross it with bare hands, and if you try, you will be shot. This is not the case when dozens of bulldozers simultaneously cross the fence and many thousands of trained terrorists coming out of tunnels and cross the fence through the openings. If you don't have prior intelligence, you can't stop it.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#452

Post by zjaffee »

m-ee wrote: post #332
solenoid0937 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In part it's because they have the best intelligence apparatus in the world. I'm very impressed at how far above their weight they're punching.

The best intelligence apparatus in the world missed the Oct 7 planning which Egyptian intelligence noticed, told the Israelis about directly, and still went ignored?

Regardless of anything else, absolutely no one is calling shin bet the best in the world at what they do. The FBI is much more effective. It's the israeli agencies that focus on transnational threats human and signals intellegence (mossad and 8200 respectively, along with other groups in the laters perview under military intellegence).

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#453

Post by ed_balls »

solenoid0937 wrote: post #276
throwaway27448 wrote: post #191

I don't think I've ever seen in all of my wide understanding of history, such a tiny state successfully make an empire its vassal. Truly an astounding feat. It would be highly entertaining if it didn't bode poorly for humanity.

In part it's because they have the best intelligence apparatus in the world. I'm very impressed at how far above their weight they're punching.

it's not, they have a good PR. Best intelligence is quiet.

>Any man who must say, 'I am the king,' is no true king

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#454

Post by bsaul »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #191

I don't think I've ever seen in all of my wide understanding of history, such a tiny state successfully make an empire its vassal. Truly an astounding feat. It would be highly entertaining if it didn't bode poorly for humanity.

if this was the case, there would be no state sponsoring palestinian terrorism for a long time.

Look at what happened after 9/11, it's pretty clear there's a wide difference between how US consider its own security matter vs israel's one.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#455

Post by expedition32 »

slg wrote: post #331
throwaway27448 wrote: post #191

I don't think I've ever seen in all of my wide understanding of history, such a tiny state successfully make an empire its vassal. Truly an astounding feat. It would be highly entertaining if it didn't bode poorly for humanity.

I don't like how Americans dismiss their own agency in this all. This is not being forced on us by Israel. A huge and underdiscussed reason why the US and Israel have the relationship they do is because of the roughly 100m American Evangelicals that want it that way. That's also why the GOP is seen as the party more favorable to Israel (not that the Democrats are necessarily adversarial, but they clearly aren't as ag…

Ah but this is were the Temple will fall a second time!

Because the interests of Jews and Christians do not and never will align. Already there are reports of orthodox Jews harassing Christians...

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#456

Post by pvaldes »

lostlogin wrote: post #6
JohnTHaller wrote: post #2

President Trump has written a strongly worded check to Netanyahu in response (according to The Onion)

Is even dumber than that. Funds for Israel flow. Trump was yelling expletives down the phone at Netanyahu this week. Trump has been leading an Israeli war. It’s dizzying, and it’s almost as though there is a lack of sound minds involved. Has the US ever been easier to manipulate or spy on?

> Trump was yelling expletives

We can assume that the conversation didn't went the way that Trump wants us to think.

When somebody annoys Trump, even slightly, he assures to appear on video broadcasted to the whole planet calling infantile expletives to that "ugly" and "incompetent" person. It does not matter if he called "beautiful" and "expert" that same person on the previous hour. As a good narcissist, he will force himself in the middle of the picture every-single-time (and push off the road anybody that would dare to speak for him). Trump is 120% predictable in that sense. Is known to have one of the thinnest skins in the planet and to be easily triggered.

But with Netanyahu curiously we enter in a totally different game, a plausible deniability game of: he-said-that-she-said-that-somebody-has-seen-trump-yelling-on-phone.

Trump must be approved the message but is afraid to emit it personally. Otherwise we should accept the nonsense that such freak of control, the most videotaped man in the planet, became so out-of character that is now allowing leaks, forgiving the whistleblowers, and hiding a video that he personally would absolutely love, LOVE, to show to his fans. A video of him showing dominion assertion over Bibi. The only logical explanation for this save facing move, is that this dominion does not exist and that Israel do what they want.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#457

Post by throwaway27448 »

ALLTaken wrote: post #402
Chu4eeno wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can see enough of what an intelligence apparatus is doing to be impressed I'd say they're not doing a very good job. What they seem to be most unique in is the impunity of their operations, like when they assassinated a completely innocent guy in Norway, of all places: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair

wow, that's shocking to read. Didn't hear about this in any European news.

Assassination is sort of the mossad's thing. I highly recommend the book "Rise and Kill First" (by an Israeli journalist Ronen Bergman) who describes this approach to international relations as something approaching an addiction. He alleges they've assassinated more people than any country on earth since their founding in 1948 and lays out a very convincing picture (to the extent he can—there are moments when you can tell he would like to state things more baldly).

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#458

Post by dragonwriter »

throwaway9917 wrote: post #425
roenxi wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is likely to get shredded if it keeps acting "in its own interest". The US doesn't look like it can sustain this global network of military bases and Israel will probably be left high and dry. This Iran war is threatening the entire global economy. That is a lot of potential enemies if the diplomats and analysts come to believe it is because Israel doesn't like peace and negotiation. At this rate Israel could…

The diplomats in question are Witkoff and Kushner. Whatever they believe about Israel’s motivations, Israel will always have their full support.

Witkoff and Kushner may always give their full support to Israel, but Witkoff and Kushner are unlikely to always represent the United States (and even moreso unlikely to always have the ability to exercise unlimited influence over US policy), and even—especially—were that not the case, the US is unlikely to always have the international power it has recently.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#459

Post by expedition32 »

MengerSponge wrote: post #395
senderista wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard casual antisemitism from strongly pro-Israel evangelicals. There is no reason to think these attitudes are mutually exclusive.

Theologically their support for Israel is rooted in antisemitism. They need Israel to trigger the end times so Jews and other nonbelievers will be punished and ultimately destroyed. If you pry and ask the right questions, they'll admit that they don't want this to happen, because they really want all those Jews and nonbelievers to convert and be saved. This is also antisemitism, but it's wrapped up in a millenia-old…

[flagged]

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#460

Post by throwaway27448 »

jraby3 wrote: post #423
CrzyLngPwd wrote: post #173

I was reading about Israel interfering with US elections and spying on the US decades ago. Why is this news now? Us gives Israel money, Israel uses that money to buy people in power in the US, those bought people then ensure US taxpayewr money flows to israel to...and so the cycle continues. Nothing explains the US being subservient to Israel than this.

US gives Israel weapons not money.

We give both. We currently have an MOU to provide Israel with $3.8B a year, including $500 allocated for missile defense, through 2028. This is distinct from direct military aid. In total we have furnished nearly $100B since Israel's founding.
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