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S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

arstechnica.com

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Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#501

Post by juanani »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #410
zhivota wrote: post #30

Big relief for me. As a passive investor, I want the indices to follow the same passive strategy they always have, and specifically not make exceptions for specific companies like SpaceX wanted. Plenty of ways to get exposure to that stock without it going into the indices it is not qualified for.

Problem is, most of the other indices have not done what S&P chose for the S&P 500. So if you have money in a NASDAQ, Russell, or FTSE index, you're going to end up with money in SpaceX. Even the S&P Global Index seems likely to include it. The whole thing is disgusting and the financial sector should be collectively ashamed of themselves.

[dead]

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#502

Post by l23k4 »

zhivota wrote: post #30

Big relief for me. As a passive investor, I want the indices to follow the same passive strategy they always have, and specifically not make exceptions for specific companies like SpaceX wanted. Plenty of ways to get exposure to that stock without it going into the indices it is not qualified for.

> I want the indices to follow the same passive strategy they always have

Okay? But the debate has been specifically about getting rid of new rules introduced in recent decades as they're incompatible with the purpose of the indices in the current situation.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#503

Post by psychoslave »

groundzeros2015 wrote: post #395
psychoslave wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you distinguish social from financial here? Isn't finance just a loose way to quantify social considerations?

I think there are plenty of interesting non-profits that won’t make you any money. I donate to some! There is a radical version of capitalism where you would say only things that make money (what people pay for) are providing social value, but I don’t think that’s what you’re getting at.

Not what I'm looking for indeed if I got what you mean. But that's because precisely money in itself seems pointless, it's just mere social conventions loosely quantified. Money is a tool and in this perspective, more specimen of tools in more hands seems rather pro social. It's more of an issue when all the many tools are tied to monopolistic unreciprocal contract serving an oligarchic social project.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#504

Post by simonh »

jstummbillig wrote: post #446
thiisguy wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logic isn’t the same. We’ve had plenty of history to judge Alphabet’s financials. It’s less about AI and more about allowing the market to appropriately price the stock after seeing their filings for a period of time.

The financials will be very different when you start doing something entirely different, with all your might.

This is true, and it's why index trackers exist, in order to diversify risk across the market so an investor is not excessively exposed to that happening for particular stocks. The market then re-prices that stock. As an index fund investor you are outsourcing your discretion to other market participants.

However the market hasn't priced these new stocks at all, the existence of index trackers is being exploited to force prices on enough buyers to make the prices stick. This is the wrong way around. It's market manipulation. It's using the behaviour of index funds to influence prices, decoupling those prices to at least some extent from the discretion of market participants.

Let the market price the stock, then the index trackers can buy in, this is exactly why these rules exist, and why it's a travesty that the NASDAQ is waiving them.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#505

Post by carlosjobim »

abustamam wrote: post #494
carlosjobim wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary: People with a low net worth have very few opportunities to scratch and claw their way out of their holes in this global feudal system. They are the ones who need to be able to make high-risk, high-reward investments. A conservative 10% return on a 2 million dollar investment is a very nice 200 000. A conservative 10% return on a 20 000 dollar investment is just 2000. If you're not born rich in this w…

Anecdotally, I know more people who have clawed out of poverty with hard work/education than I know people who got lucky with an investment. And I know plenty of non-poor people who got lucky with investments via IPO or crypto. > at worst you loose your savings This is a pretty optimistic take on how much money people who live paycheck to paycheck can actually save. I'd probably suggest that poor people with savings…

Hard work is the first stepping stone, to crawl your way out of complete poverty. Where would a person otherwise get money to invest. But that doesn't mean you're out of the hole.

What I'm talking about are things like being able to own your own home without being born into it or getting it from inheritance. That is a big gamble trying to do with just hard and smart work.

> I'd probably suggest that poor people with savings start a business over investing.

I'd like to adjust that: Starting a business is a better option than hard work, because with your own business you can actually get a good return on working hard and smart. But unless you're a business genius, it's a good idea at one point to invest your proceeds into the stock market rather than investing all back into your own business.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#506

Post by dash2 »

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #420
dash2 wrote: post #406

I’m seeing a lot of naive optimism about this decision. The risk S&P takes by doing this is that they will still be forced to buy SpaceX, but a year after everybody else. Given that there is a massive amount of capital that you know will have to buy this stock in 12 months, that itself provides speculative reasons to buy it now. The indices are in an unenviable position: a race to the bottom. The S&P 500 may be setti…

The only decision they are making is to maintain their existing rules. Which is what a slow-moving, conservative financial instrument should do. S&P may very well end up buying SpaceX, but it will be through the standard mechanism they have been using for decades. Not in a last second bum-rush deal that NASDAQ made to grant special favors. One year from IPO, the insider lock-up periods will have expired, so insiders…

Unfortunately, repeating the word “conservative” does not stop you from becoming the last buyer of overpriced stock, which others are buying exactly so they can unload onto you.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#507

Post by groundzeros2015 »

psychoslave wrote: post #503
groundzeros2015 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are plenty of interesting non-profits that won’t make you any money. I donate to some! There is a radical version of capitalism where you would say only things that make money (what people pay for) are providing social value, but I don’t think that’s what you’re getting at.

Not what I'm looking for indeed if I got what you mean. But that's because precisely money in itself seems pointless, it's just mere social conventions loosely quantified. Money is a tool and in this perspective, more specimen of tools in more hands seems rather pro social. It's more of an issue when all the many tools are tied to monopolistic unreciprocal contract serving an oligarchic social project.

That’s fine if you don’t think it’s valuable. Back to my original comment if your goal is to make money that’s a different thing, and that’s generally the case with people managing retirement accounts etc.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#508

Post by Yizahi »

zugi wrote: post #451
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #274

Letting new stocks marinate in the market and get 4 quarters of SEC filings along with following all the GAAP accounting practices will definitely help evaluate them before inclusion. The last large boom/bust cycle had a couple of companies, at least, that were doing illegal things. I'm not stating that these three are, just that nobody knows and the process should play out. I do wonder if any of these three companie…

> using AI to do their accounting and bookkeeping A friend gave AI access to his accounts to summarize his finances. On reviewing the AI-generated report, he spotted a $500 monthly loan payment that he didn't recognize. He asked AI where it came from, and AI admitted that it was a mistake. Perhaps in its training data, most people have a $500 loan payment, so AI just stuck one in there.

I always wonder, just how many payments per month do these people have that they need to "summarize" them instead of scrolling through history in about 1 or 2 minutes max? It would probably take me longer to type in a concise LLM query and fiddle with access,APIs, permissions and stuff, than to view all my expenses for a year.

And on the same note, regardless of how many transactions there are, how come people are unaware about some of them? How does that happen? Do you have loan payments you take and then pay monthly but then get a 29 day amnesia every month on schedule? Were they banned by their bank from the banking app or something? I have ADHD (real, shittier one, not an Instagram version) which makes me forget both long term and short term things all the time, for decades. It doesn't prevent me remembering which big transfers I need to do, or done already, and what is the balance now or typically end of month. Just what kind of financial empire with offshore tax evasion accounts necessitates some 3rt party "audit" of one's individual finances?

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#509

Post by root-parent »

zhivota wrote: post #30

Big relief for me. As a passive investor, I want the indices to follow the same passive strategy they always have, and specifically not make exceptions for specific companies like SpaceX wanted. Plenty of ways to get exposure to that stock without it going into the indices it is not qualified for.

"Your 401K Is Their Exit Strategy" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48433705

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#510

Post by arkadiytehgraet »

solenoid0937 wrote: post #31
Drupon wrote: post #25

Crazy to see the Twitter behavior here of really smart, well conveyed top level comments replied to by weird propaganda pushing bottom feeders.

HN discussion quality has deteriorated dramatically, especially for anything AI related.

It specifically has deteriorated because of the people like you, who peddle unfounded AI-hype while being on the payroll of one of the major labs and not disclosing it properly. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48270186 for more information.

Also, how would you even know the deterioration? You have been barely 2 years on this website. Once again you gave away your shill nature.

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