Earlier quoted context omitted.
I always thought of myself as merely ADD, but your comment is so incredibly relatable across all dimensions that I find myself wondering how far along the autism spectrum I am. Although, in my personal opinion, neither term is especially helpful: it's not a sensory/executive processing disorder if it's clearly benefiting both yourself and the people around you. It might make being sociable difficult, but that's the t…
I’d be really careful with language like. For me the sensory and executive components are clearly disordered and border line disabling all on their own., and while it is what “me” is, it certainly isn’t making me or anyone around me happier, or their lives easier. Like - I carry a shoulder bag with industrial earmuffs and extremely dark sunglasses at all times because I cannot function in sensory overload. It is not…
Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?
701–710 of 812 posts
Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?
#702The more close you are to the fire the more you understand how dangerous it is. HN always have had a sizable anti-tech crowd (I don't want to say luddite because it's borderline pejorative). If you see the technology from close and you understand the human impacts of it then there is a reason some would rather stay clear from it. I know some FAANG engineers who doesn’t allow their kids to have smartphones or use soci…
> HN always have had a sizable anti-tech crowd (I don't want to say luddite because it's borderline pejorative). It's frequently said that technology is ethically neutral, and whether it's used for good or bad ends depends on how it is applied. What you call the anti-tech crowd is simply the crowd that takes their ethical responsibilities seriously. There are other potential points of view that could be adopted inste…
Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?
#703Earlier quoted context omitted.
The false equivalency in this explanation is off the scale. It wasn't just that crypto was an obvious grift; it was that you didn't need to be an experienced developer to confirm that 99% of the "web 3.0" nonsense that what was being thrown around literally made no technical sense. You might reject LLMs on principle, or find that they don't work for you. But I think we're well past any debate of whether they do anyth…
Consider that the GP said, >Mentioning AI brings out a sharply negative side of HN that I had not seen before 2023 And the parent said, >I would say that HN was at least as sharply negative during the cryptocurrency craze And your response was, >The false equivalency in this explanation is off the scale. The parent in fact said a very straightforward, non-controversial thing, and you responded in anger, as if they sa…
Feel free to respond to what I actually said, though!
Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?
#704Earlier quoted context omitted.
The false equivalency in this explanation is off the scale. It wasn't just that crypto was an obvious grift; it was that you didn't need to be an experienced developer to confirm that 99% of the "web 3.0" nonsense that what was being thrown around literally made no technical sense. You might reject LLMs on principle, or find that they don't work for you. But I think we're well past any debate of whether they do anyth…
> It wasn't just that crypto was an obvious grift Was it universally obvious? Hindaight is 20/20 There were many block-chain startups funded, and even FAANG got caught up in the hype. FWIW, I was a crypto sceptic, but I had many arguments with believers online and in my social circles. Side note: a crypto enthusiast colleague bought a house off their crypto gains, it may be a grift, but a small number of crypto-belie…
I was asked to audit a few proposals during that era and in every case I had to go back to the person asking me to say that it was a technical architecture L. Ron Hubbard would have admired. Just straight up making up words in most cases.
Far beyond "wait, is this actually a parody? how is this not a parody?" territory. 80% of them were effectively "tamagotchis + pyramid scheme".
This is why I say that you don't have to love LLMs, but you also can't compare them in terms of also bad. Jay-walking is bad and Jeffrey Dahmer was bad; they are not "both bad".
Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?
#705It is just made my work unfun for me, that's it. I always loved problem solving, writing code, thinking about architecture. Now all of this is delegated to LLM's. Only things left is providing documentation and evaluate solutions. Evaluation part is present only because documentation/harness isn't perfect
Your are not building software together with Claude, you are only a context provider. You may think "ah, but my expertise is irreplaceable", that's false.
Another side effect is that code doesn't have any value. You can code new search engine from scratch and people will think "huh, I could prompt that too in a weekend"
I guess not many people liked writing code like I did (codeforces red btw, but this is also dead now), so effect of AI is net positive. But I give up. I need 2 more years to earn enough for the rest of my life, and I will never work in coding related field again
The irony is I have unlimited tokens, because my work is to create and deploy SOTA inference solutions for LLM's in one very well known provider. I've used all types of LLM's for a large range of problems for a long time, so this is not a hysterical post after discovering Claude for the first time
Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?
#706Earlier quoted context omitted.
Crypto has no technological merit compared to earlier solutions, except "permissonlessness", which enables the circumvention of rules and regulations (at huge expense). But, sure, enabling crime is "doing something".
It solves a CS problem called the Byzantine Generals problem. That problem was thought to have no solution before blockchains were created. The lack of CS knowledge on this board is pretty staggering sometimes.
There were solutions before blockchain, especially in the field of Byzantine fault tolerance. The original Byzantine Generals paper was from 1982, and practical algorithms existed before Bitcoin. For example: PBFT - Practical Byzantine Fault Tolerance - published in 1999.
https://css.csail.mit.edu/6.824/2014/papers/castro-practical...
Blockchain solved a different version of the problem: how can a large, open, permissionless network reach agreement when anyone can join and nobody has a fixed identity?
Classic BFT is like a committee of known people voting, where the system survives some liars.
Blockchain is like letting strangers on the internet vote, but making votes costly enough that cheating becomes economically difficult.
> The lack of CS knowledge on this board is pretty staggering sometimes.
Right!?
Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?
#707Because I enjoy writing code. I enjoy being paid for writing code. And I don't enjoy writing prompts for AI. Code is not just a means to an end. Code is a means to my happiness. Users might not care, but I do care. I love good code. I feel great when I can write good code. I won't say that I don't care about users. I do. But I care about me, first and foremost. And AI threatens to remove my lifestyle and workstyle. T…
Longshoremen are anti-cranes. Same thing.
Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?
#7081. Engineers should care about code quality so they can maintain it if their preferred AI providers are down or unavailable.
2. Code that's written well is easier for AI to navigate and modify.
3. Cognitive debt is real. I've been writing software for 20 years and without a doubt, I feel like my knowledge and edge are atrophying. This has been cited and confirmed by more than enough engineers who feel frustrated by this phenomenon.
4. Generating massive amounts of code significantly reduces accountability, making it impossible to review that code line-by-line unless you deliver your generated output in extremely small chunks (200-300 LOC per PR).
5. Since #4 is an objective reality, shipping code that hasn't been reviewed by a human is patently unethical, since the humans merging and deploying that code can't possibly know if there are lingering security holes or mishandling of sensitive information by their generated code.
6. One could say "well this is possible with hand-written code too", and they're right -- but the difference is, there was a human element in reviewing the code in good faith, rather than tossing thousands of LOC over a fence and telling their PAYING customers "good luck, hope it works!"
7. The other rebuttal is that tests and "guardrails" solve these problems. We all know that even the best test suite isn't foolproof. 100% coverage doesn't mean the tests are good, or will catch when something critical breaks.
8. AI guardrails are flaky at best: they're intended to be brief in order to save on context usage, but the more brief and numerous they are, the less accurate they'll be across a growing codebase. IME, many of the rules I've setup are obeyed by LLMs less than 100% of the time, which isn't enough to give me full confidence in them, because things will inevitably drift and fall through the cracks. Scale this to a team, and now you've got endless drift and disorder.
The arguments against AI have nothing to do with elegance, pretty code, formatting, or anything petty of the sort. It has everything to do with code quality and maintainability over time across teams of engineers who are accountable for their code, for products and services that people quite literally pay you for, trusting that what you're delivering them is stable, reliable, secure, and trustworthy.
If shipping speed is a higher priority than any of those, you have no business writing software to sell.
Did I miss anything?
Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?
#709Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’d be really careful with language like. For me the sensory and executive components are clearly disordered and border line disabling all on their own., and while it is what “me” is, it certainly isn’t making me or anyone around me happier, or their lives easier. Like - I carry a shoulder bag with industrial earmuffs and extremely dark sunglasses at all times because I cannot function in sensory overload. It is not…
I apologize. I didn't mean to suggest it is a super power, and it has also been a struggle in my life. I find it useful to frame this way because the struggle is not only because of the way that I am, but also because of the way everyone else is. I'm not asking anyone to change on my behalf, but it took me a long time to accept myself as I am. It took me a long time to accept that I didn't need to change for the bene…
Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?
#710Earlier quoted context omitted.
There’s also the uncomfortable reality that a lot of people spent a lot of time learning how to do things that anyone can prompt now… We tend to ignore that reality but it hangs above all these discussions like a dirty cloud
That does not seem like it should be controversial. I have known for quite a long time that a motivated high school kid could learn to code well enough to be perfectly useful. Especially with popular languages like Python. This is just an object lesson for everyone who thought all that software guys did was write code that there is just a little bit more to the job than that. Actual developers should already have kno…