the university system(s) as it is can't die soon enough
The British university is dying, and it seems that almost nobody cares
11–19 of 19 posts
Re: The British university is dying, and it seems that almost nobody cares
#12The UK student loan book regularly changes hands on the secondaries market at half of face value. Make of that what you will. Draw whatever conclusions you might about the market value of some of the education provided. I support anyone's wish to gain an education, including the study of esoteric subjects if that is what interests them. However many young people have been mis-sold an education in the belief that it w…
> The UK student loan book regularly changes hands on the secondaries market at half of face value. Make of that what you will. Draw whatever conclusions you might about the market value of some of the education provided.
The price of the debt says nothing about the value of education. The price is simply a reflection of the likelihood the debt will be paid.
Re: The British university is dying, and it seems that almost nobody cares
#13The UK student loan book regularly changes hands on the secondaries market at half of face value. Make of that what you will. Draw whatever conclusions you might about the market value of some of the education provided. I support anyone's wish to gain an education, including the study of esoteric subjects if that is what interests them. However many young people have been mis-sold an education in the belief that it w…
> The UK student loan book regularly changes hands on the secondaries market at half of face value. Make of that what you will. Draw whatever conclusions you might about the market value of some of the education provided. The price of the debt says nothing about the value of education. The price is simply a reflection of the likelihood the debt will be paid.
The debt will be paid when the person receiving the education is able to obtain a halfway-decent-paying job. If the debts aren't being paid, it means the education didn't result in employment.
Considering the whole point of education is to be prepared for a job, it means the education is not worth very much.
Re: The British university is dying, and it seems that almost nobody cares
#14They're dying because nobody cares about them. If nobody cares about them, why would anybody care that they're dying?
Re: The British university is dying, and it seems that almost nobody cares
#15Some British universities are dying. They expanded university capacity more than was sustainable. Now it'll retract. It's a crisis for the people involved, but not for society as a whole.
Can you give me some numbers? Like how many students were there 30 years ago, and how many now?
Re: The British university is dying, and it seems that almost nobody cares
#16Some British universities are dying. They expanded university capacity more than was sustainable. Now it'll retract. It's a crisis for the people involved, but not for society as a whole.
Can you give me some numbers? Like how many students were there 30 years ago, and how many now?
From memory about 0.5M in 1980 and about 3M in 2025.
Re: The British university is dying, and it seems that almost nobody cares
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The UK student loan book regularly changes hands on the secondaries market at half of face value. Make of that what you will. Draw whatever conclusions you might about the market value of some of the education provided. The price of the debt says nothing about the value of education. The price is simply a reflection of the likelihood the debt will be paid.
The debt will be paid when the person receiving the education is able to obtain a halfway-decent-paying job. If the debts aren't being paid, it means the education didn't result in employment. Considering the whole point of education is to be prepared for a job, it means the education is not worth very much.
Employment is not the whole point of education. The modern university started about 200 years ago in Germany with humanist ideals. An educated population was seen as a value in itself - many subjects taught weren't even very practical and that is still true today.
Re: The British university is dying, and it seems that almost nobody cares
#18Re: The British university is dying, and it seems that almost nobody cares
#19One of the key killing factors is the sheer waiting time on a grant. It used to take a matter of weeks and months to apply for a grant and wait for a result on whether you got it. Now, we're talking on the order of months to a year. Imaging telling a talented grad student who wants to work with you to wait a year to secure them a place. This prompts a lot of researchers to pre-emptively apply for anything and everyth…
Has Brexit played a role in this? When I was in and around British universities, ~20 years ago, EU grants were a significant source of income.
Massively. Funding got incredibly competitive when Brexit happened