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Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

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661–670 of 812 posts

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#661
I’m less anti-“anything AI” and more anti-“how AI seems to be used right now”.

It is:

being used as smokescreen for massive layoffs industry wide.

a repeat of the business models of 1999-2000 (growth without profit, race to IPO, promises of infinite TAM).

the business execs are following the crowd, insisting on token maxxxing, not value-to-the-customer maxxxing. There are reports that many companies have already exhausted their annual AI budget by April.

most companies don’t know how to measure if it’s actually increasing value AT ALL.

my former coworkers say it’s empowering non-engineers to write bad code / features which are a net negative. Prior to AI, bad ideas needed an engineer to tacitly approve of it, but now the bad ideas can bypass the engineer at light speed. 10x development speed is VERY BAD if the average change is a net negative.

people are leaning on LLM inference instead of basic tasks such as keeping web bookmarks organized. It will cause cognitive atrophy.

the foundation model companies are heavily subsidizing my $20/mo plan, so I’m pretty sure it becomes unaffordable once they charge cost plus for inference.

I’m personally experimenting with AI for all aspects of business (not just coding). I’m sometimes vibe coding prototypes and sometimes building a rigorous full-SDLC app.

I watched an interview with Ed Zitron yesterday and I found myself agreeing vehemently with his appropriate level of cynicism about the AI industry and how business is using it right now.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#662
Code is “a means to an end” in the same way that children are.

But do we let ourselves loose awful people unto the world simply because they spread their genes as well as any well-behaved children? No we don’t. Society has rules and a lot of good people produce children which benefit society rather than are detrimental to it.

For a lot of people, the quality of their code is a reflection of their own quality as a programmer.

If you were alive in the 1980s and you were around to see how insanely fast a computer from 1988 could do things, and you compare that to how slow things are today, you would not be saying that code is a means to an end. Software is so horrible these days because too many people believe that it’s just “a means to an end”.

For some of us, the crafting of the code is the reward that we seek.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't bring politics into it. We can literally see the software being produced getting worse very quickly since the introduction of LLMs for coding. I expect a wave of data breaches to come soon when the hackers realize how many new holes have been created lately and adjust their tactics.

But it's not just software and it's not just LLMs. Everything was starting to turn to slop before LLMs hit the scene.

Yes, it's a cultural problem. A failure of responsibility, a lapse into collective delusion that fails to take the limits of truth and physical reality seriously, in favour of a dream world made of status and money.

AI in theory could be a transformative technology. In practice it's the final product of a self-destructive system that has lost contact with the real world.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#664

Because I enjoy writing code. I enjoy being paid for writing code. And I don't enjoy writing prompts for AI. Code is not just a means to an end. Code is a means to my happiness. Users might not care, but I do care. I love good code. I feel great when I can write good code. I won't say that I don't care about users. I do. But I care about me, first and foremost. And AI threatens to remove my lifestyle and workstyle. T…

Also, code expresses understanding and intent, quite precisely.

Code generators that do not have understanding or intent are limited in their ability to express them precisely.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#665
post #575

Because I enjoy writing code. I enjoy being paid for writing code. And I don't enjoy writing prompts for AI. Code is not just a means to an end. Code is a means to my happiness. Users might not care, but I do care. I love good code. I feel great when I can write good code. I won't say that I don't care about users. I do. But I care about me, first and foremost. And AI threatens to remove my lifestyle and workstyle. T…

Thanks for the honesty. I think this is a very useful point of view precisely because it is explicit about being based on personal motivations, and that is completely fair. That said, as a minor wording point, I'm not sure "I'm bullish against it" is the right framing here. "Bullish" usually implies a positive expectation based on some thesis or evidence. In this case, something like "I'm resistant to it" seems more…

I'm not sure what you're asking for is possible. We're humans, so if something affects us, how we feel becomes relevant to critical, objective analysis. This is a common mistake engineers make: It is not valueless or irrational to discuss practical reality or personal experiences or even emotions.

In other words: You can discuss the implementation details and pricing structures and capabilities of an LLM; and you can discuss the positive/negative effects genAI has on humans. They're both valuable topics. It's impossible to separate them completely.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing about the information it feeds you is novel. It's all stolen repetition of someone else's work.

Bizarre to say that. When I have it perform work on a bespoke code base on a niche videogame, in a less commonly used language, is that still "regurgitating stuff"? No, it is impossible for it to have seen this combination of things. It routinely produces, suggests, and correctly implements novel things that had not existed. You can see this yourself by learning how LLMs work, or anecdotally using these tools.

LLMs are terrible at generating code for “less commonly used languages”. They require LOTS of data for high accuracy.

I describe it this way: they are good at interpolating from what data they were trained on, but terrible at extrapolating. I agree with the parent that the LLM-generated content isn’t novel, it’s just a rehash of two things it was trained on.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Claude is good at programming “in the small”. It’s good at getting self contained, well scoped tasks done. But it’s bad at large scale system thinking. Over time, every project I’ve gotten Claude to write has become riddled with poor design choices layered on top of one another until even Claude struggles to make forward progress. What's really fun about these tools is that this is both true and false! If you ask t…

Yeah I hear you with all of this. Its weird, working with LLMs. There are some things the LLMs are extremely good at doing autonomously. Like, reverse engineering, or reading documentation (and using that knowledge in other areas). There are things that they can do - but you need to explicitly prompt. Like, I've found Opus is quite good at optimising code. I've had a lot of success by asking it to write benchmarks (a…

> Is it bad at that stuff, or do I just need to figure out how to prompt the LLM? To return to the topic of this thread, I think we're seeing a lot of different opinions on LLM generated code for 3 reasons:

I think there's definitely a bit of both. Some things are easier to prompt "adequately." Some domains or types of requests are tougher.

The billion dollar question (well, trillion dollar, looking at the valuations of OpenAI and Anthropic) is will that change enough to actually replace the highly-paid people who currently are needed to make sure shit doesn't go sideways? They're betting that they can solve the "turn a bad prompt into a good-enough series of prompts" problem generically for everyone.

And where exactly that lands could have a lot of knock-on effects. The easy targets are things like SaaS that is only valuable because of economies of scale but the problems are "simple" if you don't have that scale.

But even there, there's a lot of echoes of the past, where things like ad-hoc Access apps or spreadsheets powered (or still power!) a bunch of business processes in lieu of SaaS products. How much appetite is there long-term for large businesses to really go back to owning all that in-house?

Also a fun irony in that the trillion-dollar-valuation world is basically "the biggest SaaS of them all" and those companies have a huge target on them and at that point practically everyone else in the world would be gunning for them. If they do find that "good enough" point, they also have to hope that nobody can replicate it for less anytime soon... (but they'll also have given those folks aiming at doing just that a great tool for helping build those systems).

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing people to go through you by buying up the market supply of a commodity at 10x the production cost is a strategy that will inevitably collapse. More DRAM will get made if prices hold.

In 10 years. 5 to realize the new prices are permanent and 5 more to build new fabs.

Most of the GPUs built in the past year are sitting in warehouses, just waiting for data centers to break ground and for electrical expansions to complete. And Nvidia can’t get China interested in buying their products in the Trump era.

There will be a massive glut of hardware soon enough. OpenAI needs $532billion in cashflow in the next 4 years to keep the “infinite money glitch” going. That’s not likely to happen unless AI makes some 10x value improvements for their customers in the next 1-2 years that we aren’t seeing now.

Re: Ask HN: Why is the HN crowd so anti-AI?

#670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah there was no system in place then to ensure those who were left without means to survive would be able to survive. Shouldn't be the case with the knowledge of that history and all this time we have to actually change things. We quite literally know that it's a matter of only a few years now before the vast amount of knowledge work (at least) is fully automated away; governments should be making changes to make t…

>It'd be highly irresponsible to not do so, and I dread that most will be irresponsible. This is why I can't stand people who talk about embracing AI. You suggest that society needs to adjust to AI, but then turn around and admit you doubt it'll happen. You'd rather roll over, than take a stance.

> You'd rather roll over, than take a stance.

You can stand on a beach and shout at a tsunami, and maybe if you have a stick and time it right, get a hit in when it arrives. But I don't see how that helps anything. The only thing I see is to do as much as possible to prepare for when it hits, to help as many as possible to survive the onslaught.

Like a tsunami, preventing the arrival of AI is essentially impossible, unless you nuke all the data centers in the US and China and kill all the scientists and engineers with even a modicum of interest in working on it. Unlike a tsunami, AI is actually pretty useful: there are many already getting value from it in it's infancy, and its value will only keep on increasing with every release. But it's going to turn the world upside-down in the process and there are many too afraid of change. That's just how people are.

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