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Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

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Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#231

Post by AnimalMuppet »

QQ00 wrote: post #207
thisislife2 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Netanyahu and Trump have a vested interest in promoting the idea of how much influence Israel has over US foreign policy. For Netanyahu, the propaganda that he manipulated Trump into waging a war against Iran boosts his political image with some Israelis. (And it is near election season in Israel).

>Both Netanyahu and Trump have a vested interest in promoting the idea of... you mentioned what Netanyahu gained from this but what about trump?

Maybe that it's not his fault?

But that's at the price of not being in control. I don't know if he thinks that's a win...

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#232

Post by JumpCrisscross »

swat535 wrote: post #225
anukin wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stronger how? The central command is gone.

I'm Iranian, now living in the west. Allow me to chime in.. So Iran doesn't have a central command, they've developed a mosaic system where the 30+ chains operate autonomously. It is also multi-layered (IRGC, Artesh, Basij, etc). The multi-layered design was developed after the revolution, when they realized that the regime should be protected in case of internal mutiny. IRGC specifically was put in place to protect…

> They've prepared for this war for 47 years, _literally_ praying for it

Is there an apocalyptic religious movement in Iran? Similar to American Evangelists hoping for Armageddon?

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#233

Post by [deleted] »

karp773 wrote: post #184
noworriesnate wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel obviously influenced American politicians through many avenues, not the least of which is the Epstein blackmail ring.

Right. That"s why Epstein wired millions of dollars to Russia, had a Russian bodyguard, gave away his estate to some Belorussian woman, and so on. Obviously, Mossad at work here!

[deleted]

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#234

Post by JumpCrisscross »

vkou wrote: post #205
delecti wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is a bit glib, but it's because attacking Iran (which everyone knew was a bad idea but which presumably seemed useful as a distraction) turned out to be a bad idea. So the administration is taking it out on Israel, who wanted us to do it.

Or, because different factions in the regime are at odds with eachother - there's MAGA, who are a sock puppet for whatever Netanyahu wants, and who spearheaded the idiotic war with Iran, and there's the entire military, which thinks that this war is by far the dumbest thing they've been asked to do... This year. Did this announcement come from the military side of things, or the MAGA side of things?

> there's MAGA, who are a sock puppet for whatever Netanyahu wants

This vastly oversimplifies even that field.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#235

Post by t-3 »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #182
thisislife2 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Netanyahu and Trump have a vested interest in promoting the idea of how much influence Israel has over US foreign policy. For Netanyahu, the propaganda that he manipulated Trump into waging a war against Iran boosts his political image with some Israelis. (And it is near election season in Israel).

I don't see how that's a win for him since the outcome was a stronger Iran.

Netanyahu avoids domestic issues and stays in power through the continuation of the conflict. Israel continues to receive US money and weapons, and can continue to run a wartime economy, which has been lucrative for many.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#236

Post by avidphantasm »

anukin wrote: post #194
TurdF3rguson wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that's a win for him since the outcome was a stronger Iran.

Stronger how? The central command is gone.

They have proven to the world they have a deterrent akin to a nuclear weapon, but they can actually use it.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#237

Post by JumpCrisscross »

thisislife2 wrote: post #195
logicchains wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It was also a bad idea then. They could never have effected regime change They could have if they'd done what Israel wanted and destroyed all the oil infrastructure. The IRGC is heavily dependent on oil revenue for funding its oppressive apparatus; without it hundreds of thousands of militia would go without pay and eventually desert. For whatever reason Trump didn't want to do this; likely not for humanitarian reas…

> if they'd done what Israel wanted and destroyed all the oil infrastructure. That would have worked. But it is still a stupid idea if you don't cripple and destroy Iran's military capability first as Iran would have also retaliated and destroyed all its Arab neighbour's oil infrastructure too, plunging the world into an economic depression because of the energy crisis it would cause - The Iran War Is Destroying Some…

> Iran would have also retaliated and destroyed all its Arab neighbour's oil infrastructure too

Iran probably couldn't have, not without being intercepted and having its launchers neutralised every time it fired. But Tehran would have kept on credibly threatening to, which would have meant America essentially taking on air defence responsibility for the entire Gulf.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#238

Post by JumpCrisscross »

throwaway534634 wrote: post #134
YZF wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be right on the regime change being fantasy but those things are not predictable and we don't know the details. Where you're definitely wrong is on the "diplomatic agreement that worked". Iran continued to enrich violating the agreement, the agreement was time bound and not indefinite (and would have already expired anyways), and it enabled them to sell oil and raise a lot of money to fuel their wars, missi…

> Where you're definitely wrong is on the "diplomatic agreement that worked". Iran continued to enrich violating the agreement... No, actually it is you who is wrong. Iran absolutely complied with the JCPOA. It is after US withdrew from the agreement that they pursued enrichment further.

> Iran absolutely complied with the JCPOA

Yup. "The U.S. certified in April 2017 and in July 2017 that Iran was complying with the deal. On 13 October 2017, President Trump announced that he would not make the certification required under the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act, accusing Iran of violating the spirit of the deal..." [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_nuclear_deal#Trump_admini...

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#239

Post by thisislife2 »

EA-3167 wrote: post #196
thisislife2 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MBS and the Saudis also want this While it is true that the Saudis are hostile to Iran and do want Iran's power to be curtailed, they were never in favour of the current war because they knew the plan was ill-thought and suicidal for it, as they knew how Iran would respond (and how ill-prepared they and the American military was to defend them). Iran's foreign policy with its Arab neighbours is based on the blunt b…

They literally bombed Iran themselves in the midst of a ceasefire, they also are on record pushing to finish Iran off. It just doesn’t get as much coverage as anything with Israel in the headline. I.E. https://apnews.com/article/trump-iran-saudi-arabia-mbs-gulf-...

The Saudis have only done "tit for tat" bombing, and are especially cautious to ensure that there is no escalation. Yes, they would prefer if this war could curtail Iran's power but they don't want it at the cost of their economy. Saudi Arabia Built a Private De-Escalation Track With Iran. - https://houseofsaud.com/saudi-helsinki-bilateral-iran-de-esc... (The whole of the https://houseofsaud.com/ provides an interesting Saudi perspective on the war and their relationships with the US).
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