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Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

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Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#131

Post by logicchains »

basilgohar wrote: post #70
petcat wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone knew was a bad idea It was a good idea if it was also timed during the popular uprisings. But the 20,000+ die-hard citizens that would have effected regime change were slaughtered months ago. So now it's just a scared populace hunkering in place while USA warships and jets dominate their country. And the Iranians fire off the occasional drone swarm on UAE.

It was not and never was a good idea. The US and Europe need to stay out of the Middle East, including Israel and Palestine, and let the Jews, Christians, Muslims, and all other indigenous peoples of the area live there peacefully like that had for over a thousand years until each and every single time Europeans and Americans entered militarily causing chaos and havoc. Was it 100% peaceful prior to the Crusades? Of c…

>let the Jews, Christians, Muslims, and all other indigenous peoples of the area live there peacefully like that had for over a thousand years

That's an extremely historically ignorant take. Turkey alone genocided 2-3 million Christians in the 20th century (Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks), well before Israel existed.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#133

Post by engcoach »

myth_drannon wrote: post #64

[flagged]

This development isn’t necessarily incompatible with the idea of the US being a vassal state (e.g. the takeover is a partial compromise as open admission of capture would lead to a mass uprising against the Federal government possibly via a national guard division or the like)

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#134

Post by throwaway534634 »

YZF wrote: post #129
tyre wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was also a bad idea then. They could never have effected regime change. That’s a fantasy that Israel included in its pressure on the US, but which US intelligence deemed highly implausible. There was never a world where this was a good idea. We had a diplomatic agreement that worked, nuked it for no gain, and now there isn’t a viable way to influence Iran. Diplomacy can’t function again because they don’t trust th…

You might be right on the regime change being fantasy but those things are not predictable and we don't know the details. Where you're definitely wrong is on the "diplomatic agreement that worked". Iran continued to enrich violating the agreement, the agreement was time bound and not indefinite (and would have already expired anyways), and it enabled them to sell oil and raise a lot of money to fuel their wars, missi…

> Where you're definitely wrong is on the "diplomatic agreement that worked". Iran continued to enrich violating the agreement...

No, actually it is you who is wrong. Iran absolutely complied with the JCPOA. It is after US withdrew from the agreement that they pursued enrichment further.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#135

Post by EA-3167 »

delecti wrote: post #48
basilgohar wrote: post #31

"Government suddenly and confusingly starts acting accordingly to what everyone's already know for a long time." This is really quite scary when you think about it. Why now all of a sudden?

Maybe this is a bit glib, but it's because attacking Iran (which everyone knew was a bad idea but which presumably seemed useful as a distraction) turned out to be a bad idea. So the administration is taking it out on Israel, who wanted us to do it.

Along these lines, but with a bit more:

Israel definitely wanted us to do this, but they've been trying to sell US presidents on this for decades without success. MBS and the Saudis also want this, but you rarely read about that in the news; likewise with the UAE and quite a few others who have even been running their own direct strikes on Iran.

The thing is, and I realize this is a rough climate to say this into: Jews have been the official scapegoats for the Middle East and Europe for what... 1500 years now? That doesn't just go away, and the political expediency of Trump covering his ass and the ass of his Saudi/UAE sources of billions (through Jared, Ivanka, Eric, etc) can't be thrown under the bus to do it.

Meanwhile Israel is being run by a universally loathed man who can't shut up, so it's just easier to pretend that's it all their fault.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#136

Post by screye »

delecti wrote: post #48
basilgohar wrote: post #31

"Government suddenly and confusingly starts acting accordingly to what everyone's already know for a long time." This is really quite scary when you think about it. Why now all of a sudden?

Maybe this is a bit glib, but it's because attacking Iran (which everyone knew was a bad idea but which presumably seemed useful as a distraction) turned out to be a bad idea. So the administration is taking it out on Israel, who wanted us to do it.

How can a vassal state with 1/60th your GDP 'influence' your nation into a war ? It's a rhetorical question. It can't.

Makes the MAGA military look incompetent. The US has a history of botched wars around the globe, most of which have little to do with Israel. If I'm drawing from data, then the Iran conflict is consistent with the post-war military movements of the US.

Now that the communists are no more, Israel is the next best scapegoat. The way I see it, Israel's current leaders are happy to be scapegoats because the war benefits Ben Gvir and a radicalized Likud. It allows them to consolidate domestic power and pursue aggressive foreign objectives under shadow of the Iran conflict.

I hope Netanyahu has thought this through. He has burned through 100 years of western guilt in the span of 3 years. To break even, Israel's military excursions must secure outsized outcomes, to the tune of decades of security. Because, I believe we are entering a couple of decades of bipartisan & unprecedented* anti-semitism.

* Figuratively speaking. Historically ofc, anti-semitism is pretty precedented.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#137

Post by parineum »

ceejayoz wrote: post #120
krona wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason is that blaming Israel for the Iran FUBAR situation is very convenient, especially for keeping MAGA on board. Polling shows support for Israel is far greater among Trump loyalist voters than non-loyalist Republicans, so this is surely false. Perhaps you're confusing "MAGA" with actual American nationalists, who are statistically irrelevant.

The reason for the support matters. A lot of them think support for Israel leads to the apocalypse and Jesus’s return. It doesn’t end well for the Jews in that story.

Now you're confusing maga with evangelicals which are very different parts of the party. Evangelicals have largely lost influence in a post Roe world.

Trump had to cater to them in his first term but, since he's taken over the party, they're in the backseat.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#139

Post by ryandrake »

ceejayoz wrote: post #120
krona wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One reason is that blaming Israel for the Iran FUBAR situation is very convenient, especially for keeping MAGA on board. Polling shows support for Israel is far greater among Trump loyalist voters than non-loyalist Republicans, so this is surely false. Perhaps you're confusing "MAGA" with actual American nationalists, who are statistically irrelevant.

The reason for the support matters. A lot of them think support for Israel leads to the apocalypse and Jesus’s return. It doesn’t end well for the Jews in that story.

Among USA evangelicals, support for Israel (and specifically the country’s belligerence) has notably little to do with Judaism itself or the Jewish people.
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