India's surprise baby bust • Hacker News Board

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#901

Post by matchbok3 » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 5:52 PM UTC

drdaeman wrote: post #700

matchbok3 wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a dad of (soon) 3, I would say that social media/etc have raised the expectations of parenting. Keep in mind that the kids aren't the only ones growing up and learning - the parents are too. And hopefully learning from their parents too. "Being ready" to have a child is an impossibility so you have to embrace the unknown and be ok with mistakes. Kids are resilient, and many millions have had to do with less.

I understand about the impossibility of being ready. No one is ever ready for something they do for the first time. As any complex and long project, there's theoretical preparation and there's practice with its constant ongoing course correction when (not "if") something doesn't go as planned. It's not an immediate issue or reason, at least not for me. And another thing I understand is that some people actively want…

That all makes total sense.

To be fair, I only realized I really wanted to kids once my wife and I started really considering it and my friends started having them.

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#902

Post by b65e8bee43c2ed0 » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 6:10 PM UTC

trumpdong wrote: post #865

b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the state hates, hates, HATES paying for children, to the point of occasionally forcing victims of rape, infidelity, or fraud to pay child support. https://www.nycourts.gov/reporter/3dseries/2006/2006_05238.h... >In October 2000, however, when appearing before a Family Court hearing examiner to answer Shondel's petition, Mark{*7 NY3d at 325} requested DNA testing. The hearing examiner ordered genetic marker tests, wh…

That one's about someone who acted as the father for almost five years before suddenly questioning it. It's not about paying for children, it's about seeing a responsibility you took on through to the end. Mandatory DNA testing at birth would solve a lot of these, and bring in new problems.

[flagged]

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#903

Post by voiceofchoice » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 6:11 PM UTC

jbxntuehineoh wrote: post #526

voiceofchoice wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't think child rearing is work then you won't understand why women choose not to have kids in the first place. You cannot be a parent and choose not to work, period. Just because you're not getting paid and ordered around by an adult boss doesn't mean being a trad wife is magically somehow not work. In fact, at least with a regular 9-5 you get PTO and time off. If you scoff at the idea of flipping burgers y…

_obviously_ they meant "work" as in "employment", stop being obtuse > your whole life pretty sure the diaper changing part only lasts a couple years

Sure, which is still not any better cause at least you can quit a job you don't like.

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#904

Post by voiceofchoice » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 6:15 PM UTC

globnomulous wrote: post #819

voiceofchoice wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the first time ever people can finally choose not to have kids. Is it really any surprise people would opt out? Go spend a day with kids and you'll see why people would rather not deal with the mess. Especially women who actually end up doing the majority of the work. Add to that the extinction level pressures like climate change and the absolute lack of any benefit whatsoever in being a parent, who is crazy enou…

My love for my daughter and my wife enrich my life and contribute more to my happiness than anything else, by far. As you wrote, the majority of the very, very hard work has fallen to my wife. I wouldn't fault any woman, or man, for not wanting it. Still, my wife and I both feel that parenting is the best thing we've ever done or will ever do. It's everything I hoped it would be -- and much more besides. The benefits…

Honestly that's fantastic and I'm glad it turned out that way for you. The world needs parents who actually raise their kids and want to.

I only encourage people to do the requisite research to make sure they make the right choice for themselves, because for many it's not.

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#905

Post by voiceofchoice » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 6:16 PM UTC

matchbok3 wrote: post #574

voiceofchoice wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the first time ever people can finally choose not to have kids. Is it really any surprise people would opt out? Go spend a day with kids and you'll see why people would rather not deal with the mess. Especially women who actually end up doing the majority of the work. Add to that the extinction level pressures like climate change and the absolute lack of any benefit whatsoever in being a parent, who is crazy enou…

1. Climate change is most certainly not an extinction level event. 2. I spend many days with kids. They are great. I suggest you do the same and experience the human experience. Someone had to deal with the piece of crap you were when you were 2 years old, after all. 3. You'll stop praising the lack of children when you are 80 and nobody young wants to take care of you. You will have a lonely, lonely existence.

Some of us like alone time, just saying.

I have daily reminders that validate my choice. The fact that it's finally something people can choose is a major factor in the downtrend.

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#906

Post by voiceofchoice » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 6:20 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #478

voiceofchoice wrote: post #374

I encourage anyone surprised that people would opt out of babies and raising kids actually spend time with kids. Not just like for the holidays and pass them back when they start crying, but an actual extended period of time dealing with all the issues that they bring. You've got to be a special kind of idealistic romantic to still see the appeal afterwards. Which is great for you of course if you do. But there's a r…

there are several comments here contradicting you directly and talking about how kids are a great experience.

I mean yeah, the human experience is vast and varied, I'll grant you that.

As long as people get to make the best choice for themselves that's really what matters.

There's lots of people who would choose not to expose ourselves to the risks and liabilities because we don't see the rewards as worth it.

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#907

Post by tarun_anand » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 6:20 PM UTC

India is a vast and complex country with many communities - the TFR is falling even lower for some communities as there are others who believe that having a lot of children will promote their community.

A census is underway in the country as we speak - the numbers will make the point clear.

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#908

Post by Arodex » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 6:21 PM UTC

SubmarineClub wrote: post #221

Arodex wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could make the point this is less about industrialization causing a change in behavior, and more chemical pollution destroying fertility. Of which we have plenty of concrete evidence.

Except evidence does not show that there are many more people trying and failing for kids as in past decades, so much as more people are delaying partnering up and having kids till later and later, along with many opting to be childless. And most fertility issues people do encounter can primarily be explained by attempting to have children decades later than is biologically optimal.

Sperm count is an easy-to-measure proxy, independent of the will of people to have children, that shows something is going bad, fast, everywhere.

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#909

Post by koolba » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 7:11 PM UTC

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #881

sirwhinesalot wrote: post #721

The real reason why nobody is having kids can be summarized by the sentence: "It takes a village to raise a kid". Look up how much time a mother actually used to spend holding their own child vs other people holding that same child. It was something like 40%. When you lived surrounded by your tribe, you had an extremely strong support network that no longer exists in industrialized society. Add to that all the other…

It's also such a recursive problem - there aren't enough kids, so your kids don't have enough kids to play with, so you don't have more kids I remember almost never sitting inside my house after school. I had two elder siblings and we had probably 30 odd kids in my locality. We would all be out all the time. Safety wasn't an issue because there were some older kids in the group too who could be counted on to keep thi…

> It's also such a recursive problem

The recursive aspect is grandparents being 70+ rather than 50+ when they help out.

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#910

Post by onetimeusename » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 7:16 PM UTC

bregma wrote: post #826

onetimeusename wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised to find that just as recently as 1970 the median age of first marriage for men was ~23 and ~21 for women.[1] The average age at first child birth for women in 1970 was ~22.[2] There was a change that took place in the late 70s it looks like, probably acquiring education, that started to pretty dramatically raise the age of first marriage and first childbirth. So for me this was realizing that there wa…

Birth control was illegal in the USA until the late 1960s (other than condoms, which is what sailors used with prostitutes). It takes a while for changes to propagate through society. Also, consumer credit was illegal until the same time period, and only legalized for people with vaginas in the mid-1970s. That alone might have made all the difference with marriage and fertility (which after all are only mildly relate…

So you're saying that the median marriage was forced back then? I don't see why the same reasoning wouldn't apply to men as well or who was forcing people into marriages besides some vague idea about "the patriarchy or something".

I was responding to OP's point about how our bodies are better suited to have children when we're younger. I think that's scientifically supported. My main belief would be that having children when you have peak fertility probably goes hand in hand. Birth control is a good hypothesis, you could say it broke this link.