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The Smart TV in Your LivingRoom Is a Node in the AIScraping Economy

blog.includesecurity.com

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Re: The Smart TV in Your LivingRoom Is a Node in the AIScraping Economy

#11

Post by calcifer »

> The SDK’s config ships a flag “use_netifs”: true. That flag triggers code in the SDK binary that constructs its NWConnection with a specific required interface: en0 (WiFi) or pdp_ip0 (cellular), rather than using the system default route.

> On iOS, this bypasses any configured VPN’s tun0 interface entirely. The peer tunnel does not cross a user-configured VPN, even when the rest of the app’s HTTPS traffic does.

What's a legitimate use case for this API? When/why should an app be allowed to bypass a user-configured VPN?

Re: The Smart TV in Your LivingRoom Is a Node in the AIScraping Economy

#13

Post by idiotsecant »

lelandfe wrote: post #7
cobbzilla wrote: post #3

I never connect any “smart” device to wifi. If it doesn’t work without connectivity, I don’t want it. I use my TVs as display devices. They have HDMI-in and that’s it.

On my TCL TV, you have to connect it to read the Google policies you are agreeing to. If you don't, you agree to policies unread. Thankfully, the blast radius of this is nothing without connectivity.

But it lets you continue without reading them? There's a lot of questionable terms of service rules but this one has to be unenforcable.

Re: The Smart TV in Your LivingRoom Is a Node in the AIScraping Economy

#15

Post by picofarad »

calcifer wrote: post #11

> The SDK’s config ships a flag “use_netifs”: true. That flag triggers code in the SDK binary that constructs its NWConnection with a specific required interface: en0 (WiFi) or pdp_ip0 (cellular), rather than using the system default route. > On iOS, this bypasses any configured VPN’s tun0 interface entirely. The peer tunnel does not cross a user-configured VPN, even when the rest of the app’s HTTPS traffic does. Wha…

> When/why should an app be allowed to bypass a user-configured VPN?

temporarily if full tunnelling isn't working, one can split tunnel to route around issues due to VPN

But imo an app should never bypass something like a network boundary.

Re: The Smart TV in Your LivingRoom Is a Node in the AIScraping Economy

#16

Post by ErroneousBosh »

So wait a second then, it connects out using a websocket to its bot C&C server, right?

Which presumably passes it a URL to scrape and waits for it to return the data.

What happens if I write my own tool that connects to that C&C server, waits for a URL to scrape, and returns gigabytes of freshly brewed hot horseshit?

Re: The Smart TV in Your LivingRoom Is a Node in the AIScraping Economy

#17

Post by tisdadd »

yodon wrote: post #14

Naive question: what would I search for to find a tutorial on how to detect this on my devices, which are mostly iOS, or in my home network? I'd love to find and remove any apps from my devices that have this SDk active.

There could be better, but this looked reasonable at first glance if you also have a Mac.

https://www.thequantizer.com/tutorials/wireshark-iphone-traf...

It has been a while since I personally did such traces, but Wireshark was very simple to use and once the network is exposed, it has lots of information available online if you need more.

I found bypassing your VPN particularly appalling, as is the whole thing. Personally, it would be amazing if there were a limit on how much can be in Terms of Service, as no one wants to read that much anymore.

Re: The Smart TV in Your LivingRoom Is a Node in the AIScraping Economy

#18

Post by chmod775 »

calcifer wrote: post #11

> The SDK’s config ships a flag “use_netifs”: true. That flag triggers code in the SDK binary that constructs its NWConnection with a specific required interface: en0 (WiFi) or pdp_ip0 (cellular), rather than using the system default route. > On iOS, this bypasses any configured VPN’s tun0 interface entirely. The peer tunnel does not cross a user-configured VPN, even when the rest of the app’s HTTPS traffic does. Wha…

> What's a legitimate use case for this API?

When you're the application providing the VPN or when you're any app built to communicate with something on a local-ish network, not something actually reachable globally.

Re: The Smart TV in Your LivingRoom Is a Node in the AIScraping Economy

#19

Post by cyanydeez »

xg15 wrote: post #5

> After config fetch, the SDK opens a persistent WebSocket to: wss://proxyjs.brdtnet.com:443 This hostname resolves to AWS Global Accelerator IPs There is some irony that both the scrapers and the websites being scraped are probably hosted on AWS, while playing an elaborate cat-and-mouse game pretending that they weren't.

Kind how the American government needs commercial businesses which they poorly regulate so those businesses provide privacy invasions as a legal means to wash their hands.

Re: The Smart TV in Your LivingRoom Is a Node in the AIScraping Economy

#20

Post by iugtmkbdfil834 »

NewCzech wrote: post #8

One of the problems I can see here is the problem that running a Tor exit node has: badly behaved users are going to be using it to hide their location. Imaging having the police show up at your door because they've figured out that you're trafficking child porn, when the actual culprit is someone that is using your TV as a proxy to trade child porn.

I genuinely dislike how user hostile everything has become. I effectively have to become an expert in near everything and track all news on the off-change something major upends previous assumptions. And if I miss it somehow and complain about it, defenders will come out of the woodwork to defend, deflect or derail the conversation.

If there is any good news about this, it is that the fatigue seems to be hitting normal people. Buddy from work complained to me how he now is now forced to be a full blown wifi/internet admin so that his kids' restrictions/limits are appropriately enforced.

I am just venting, because I am not entirely certain what an appropriate solution here is.

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