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Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

alexispurslane.github.io

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Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#451

Post by kelnos »

albedoa wrote: post #332
jarym wrote: post #256

I've been coding for over 2 decades. I love it, I've always loved it and I likely always will. I was an AI skeptic some months ago but truly Claude and Codex have changed my development style and velocity in a way I never imagined would ever be possible. With that, yes, I produce more code and am finding more bugs. So looking over at comments in HN articles the amount of polarising hate to anything produced with AI i…

> It reminds me a lot of when offshore outsources started getting more software development work from the mid-90s with all the derogatory remarks made towards 'Indian developers'. What was the impetus of the derogatory remarks?

Some of it was indeed driven by sub-par work from the outsourcing firms, as the style of work was new and people on both sides hadn't developed the right skill set and processes to do the work well.

Some of it was genuine cultural differences. It's hard to work with people and get the results you want when you don't understand their culture, and how they communicate. (For example, people from some cultures just can't say "no" or "I don't know"; you need to learn how to communicate with them in a different way to get the understanding you need.)

Some of it was certainly a form of jingoistic or xenophobic protectionism.

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#452

Post by kelnos »

lbrito wrote: post #181

Wait, how is any of this relevant if there were only 2 Claude commits? My statistics courses are far behind me, but don't you need at least 30 data points to conclude anything?

It wasn't 2 Claude commits. It's 2 releases where the (many) commits were largely co-authored by Claude.

> My statistics courses are far behind me, but don't you need at least 30 data points to conclude anything?

That cuts both ways. If we say that the author here can't claim any conclusion because there are only 2 Claude-authored releases, then we must also say that the people claiming "Claude broke rsync" have no statistical basis to draw that conclusion, either.

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#453

Post by wolletd »

kelnos wrote: post #432
wolletd wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “I’d rather be out sailing than working on rsync security issues, so I have reached for several AI tools to help with what needs to be done,” Well, then maybe it's already overdue to find a new maintainer for the project and let someone else continue it? The tool will not get better from someone working on it who doesn't want to.

Unless you're willing to step up and be that person, it's not your place for you to suggest it.

I don't agree with that, I can very well still discuss that. He clearly sounds like someone who doesn't want to do this work anymore and should have searched for a successor.

That's my impression from that sentence, at least. Don't you agree?

So, why didn't he do it? Because just firing up Claude and let it rip is way easier than finding real people and building up trust?

Did Claude increase bugs in rsync? Or did Claude just gave some basically retired programmer, who doesn't even want to work on his project anymore, the impression that he can replace finding a successor with just handing it to AI?

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#454

Post by wolletd »

rsc wrote: post #354
Eufrat wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Tridge is simultaneously trying to be proactive and kinda giving too much credit to marketing. Anthropic has not been able to really give numbers or actual values on what Mythos can really do. It just waved Mythos in front of the public like a boogeyman screaming that AI is going to cause a security nightmare (and it has, but mostly through vibe coded trash from what I’ve noticed); I’m hard pressed to find th…

As a long-time open-source maintainer, I find all the second-guessing and armchair psychoanalysis here (not just in this comment, all over HN) about Tridge's motivations, state of mind, and so on incredibly off-putting. Tridge doesn't owe anyone anything as far as rsync is concerned. Yet he is spending his time maintaining it, only to be attacked for his efforts. To respond to the specific technical point, there real…

> Yet he is spending his time maintaining it, only to be attacked for his efforts.

Which, in general, is totally legit. Doing something voluntarily doesn't relieve you from criticism if what you are doing isn't good.

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#455

Post by Laurel1234 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #285
RustyRussell wrote: post #258

For those commenting, I suggest you read the post linked by the rsync author: https://medium.com/@tridge60/rsync-and-outrage-d9849599e5a0 (Disclosure: while I haven't talked with him in years, Tridge was my colleague and mentor for many years. I feel it is worth considering his view before joining a crusade)

This should be the top comment. I think it's pretty sad that he even had to write it. Quite a lot of judgement from people who aren't paying his bills.

Yeah a big reason you see so much pushback on clanker slop is that it's having (and there was certainly the expectation of it having) a negative impact on the ability of plenty of people to pay their bills.

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#456

Post by rswail »

Personally, I'm going to believe tridge, someone that has contributed more to software than 99.9(recurring) of the software development community over the last 3+ decades, than a bunch of brigaders jumping on the anti-AI backlash.

There was one regression bug apparently (related to multiple destinations and the way people do backups), but all the attention/anger has been about a test suite that makes the rsync development better, more rigorous and copes with the onslaught of both good and bad AI generated PRs as well as hardening something that has two decades of C code in it.

People need to grow up and appreciate what others in the community (especially people like tridge) have provided.

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#457

Post by Laurel1234 »

cobertos wrote: post #265

This post just gives me more questions than answers and I'm unable to form a decision: * Why was v3.4.1 the most buggy, right before the Claude commits? Why did "nobody notice"? It's way to strange to just say welp, it must be human error. * Why does v3.4.2 have 0 bugs, or 0 bug score. And why was such an outlier (no other commit seemingly has this??) allowed to mix into aggregate statistics and bring all the "is Cla…

> Tbh idk how that _wasn't_ a red flag in the author's analysis...

Because he didn't analyze shit, just asked a clanker to rationalize his "clankers are great" conclusion.

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#458

Post by bradrn »

logicprog wrote: post #46
bradrn wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that would help considerably. (Also, I suggest clearly acknowledging where AI was/wasn’t used. I like CuriosityC’s suggestion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48411968 )

Alright, I'll do that. Although, sadly, I already posted it here, so I won't be able to post it again — I'll be stuck with this trash comments section that doesn't deal with any of the actual claims, just the aesthetics.

Just reread the post — it’s much more pleasant to read now! Thank you!

(For what it’s worth, I think your own writing style is quite nice, now that I can see it.)

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#459

Post by laserlight »

wolletd wrote: post #454
rsc wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a long-time open-source maintainer, I find all the second-guessing and armchair psychoanalysis here (not just in this comment, all over HN) about Tridge's motivations, state of mind, and so on incredibly off-putting. Tridge doesn't owe anyone anything as far as rsync is concerned. Yet he is spending his time maintaining it, only to be attacked for his efforts. To respond to the specific technical point, there real…

> Yet he is spending his time maintaining it, only to be attacked for his efforts. Which, in general, is totally legit. Doing something voluntarily doesn't relieve you from criticism if what you are doing isn't good.

Agreed. Just like one doesn't owe the society their voluntary work, the society doesn't owe one protection from criticism.

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#460

Post by yorwba »

iandinwoodie wrote: post #302
theteapot wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. From the article: > Here's my favorite part, though. Digging into the data, one of the first things that jumped out at me with blinding clarity was that the worst release, by far, in rsync history was entirely prior to the introduction of Claude ... And yet nobody noticed. Language really does suggest the article's author does have a dog in this fight and is cloaking opinion in fancy statistics jargon. "Blindi…

Also from the article: > "Claude clearly made things worse" &emdash; the main claim This article was clearly generated by AI, yet I found no mention/attribution of that by author. How likely is it than someone who vibe codes articles would also vibe code the underlying analysis and be eager to accept an outcome that is highly validating of that person’s workflow? I’d say very.

The &emdash; is probably human error, other parts of the HTML correctly use — or Unicode em-dashes. Also: https://github.com/alexispurslane/rsync-analysis/commit/740b...
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