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S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

arstechnica.com

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Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#61

Post by kgwgk »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #43
viceconsole wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US at least, many pension funds are not sophisticated, they're small, underfunded, and getting taken for a ride by expensive advisors who promise fantastical returns that will help dig them out of their funding ratio hole. Many would be better off using an S&P 500 index fund for their equity component instead of getting wined and dined into an illiquid, opaque private equity investment. Telling that among OECD…

> many pension funds are not sophisticated, they're small, underfunded, and getting taken for a ride by expensive advisors Who tend to come up with bumfuck benchmarks other than the common ones. Sometimes for good reasons. Often to justify their own comp. > Many would be better off using an S&P 500 index fund Maybe. They would probably be better off with some total-market funds (instead of biasing towards large caps,…

It’s true that S&P 500 is not the most popular US equities benchmark for pension funds. Russell is the preferred provider - and they will include SpaceX 5 days after the IPO.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#62

Post by altmanaltman »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #54
vasco wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market moved in reaction to the totality of events that happened in the world all averaged out through the actions of the participants, anyone who says "this" was what happened on any day is wrong. Some days have dominating factors but even if the event is the dominant one, the reason why it has the impact it does might be a 3rd or 4th level effect.

> anyone who says "this" was what happened on any day is wrong There is never a singular reason. But there are negligible reasons. S&P not changing its rules was a negligible reason for today's tanking.

But how can you quantify that? There is no way to prove it, the market cannot say "I wasn't moved by this, I was actually moved by that and this part was actually just negligible."

Isn't it all subjective in the end because nobody really makes their trades with verifiable notes expressing the exact reason. So we can only guess right?

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#64

Post by integricho »

andsoitis wrote: post #60
zippyman55 wrote: post #3

Yep!! Respect to them. I was planning to move to an equal weight index but this gives me a little more time to evaluate options.

> I was planning to move to an equal weight index but this gives me a little more time to evaluate options. S&P requires 4 consecutive profitable quarters, amongst other requirements, so if one of the new mega caps like SpaceX or Anthropic or OpenAI get included, you’d probably want to get the benefit of their performance. Put differently, if one previously specifically picked an index fund that is not equal weighted…

But they haven't been good performers, and don't deserve joining s&p, and that is the point, do not make exceptions just because Elon Musk or whatever delusional billionaire says so.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#65

Post by bruce343434 »

d--b wrote: post #56
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This news tanked 5% off the Nasdaq yesterday No, it did not. The market moved in reaction to earnings misses from e.g. Broadcom [1] and the strong jobs report. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/markets/article/broadcom-stock-sin...

The strong job numbers too. On a side note, I find it very sad that strong job numbers make stock plummet. It really is an indication that the stock market is mostly speculative and not concerned about the actual economy.

> not concerned about the actual economy.

Why would it be? Non dividend stocks only have value because other people think they have value (i.e. greater fool theory).

Only dividend stocks have some base value connected to how well the company does. (Higher dividend if it does well, lower if it does poorly.) But they still also have a lot of "greater fool" value.

Beyond dividend, stocks have no intrinsic value. Nowadays you don't even get a piece of paper to wipe your ass with anymore, it's all digital.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#66

Post by khriss »

A lot of comments here are saying that the impact on the S&P would have been 'minimal' since the S&P is float weighted. So SpaceX would have been ~0.3% of the index.

The point isn't that the impact would have been minimal. It's that changing the rules to suit the rich and connected is the literal definition of crony capitalism. Why should SpaceX get exemptions from entry requirements to the S&P when every other company before it didn't?

Trying to justify it based on an argument that it would have been 'just' $200 billion, is absurd since that $200 billion is coming largely from the public via index funds that would have been forced to buy SpaceX shares.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#67

Post by khazhoux »

vasco wrote: post #52
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This news tanked 5% off the Nasdaq yesterday No, it did not. The market moved in reaction to earnings misses from e.g. Broadcom [1] and the strong jobs report. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/markets/article/broadcom-stock-sin...

The market moved in reaction to the totality of events that happened in the world all averaged out through the actions of the participants, anyone who says "this" was what happened on any day is wrong. Some days have dominating factors but even if the event is the dominant one, the reason why it has the impact it does might be a 3rd or 4th level effect.

Thank you! So sick of people always ascribing the market's movement to whichever narrative headline they pick that day.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#68

Post by andric »

bruce343434 wrote: post #65
d--b wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strong job numbers too. On a side note, I find it very sad that strong job numbers make stock plummet. It really is an indication that the stock market is mostly speculative and not concerned about the actual economy.

> not concerned about the actual economy. Why would it be? Non dividend stocks only have value because other people think they have value (i.e. greater fool theory). Only dividend stocks have some base value connected to how well the company does. (Higher dividend if it does well, lower if it does poorly.) But they still also have a lot of "greater fool" value. Beyond dividend, stocks have no intrinsic value. Nowaday…

They do have intrinsic value!

Growth stocks trade on a multiple of earnings: earnings have intrinsic value.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#69

Post by blobbers »

Good. Financial grift needs to end. Passive investment has become slightly too passive. S&P saved us. We weren't so lucky when they were rating bonds before the GFC. Glad they seem to have grown some ethics and are not bending the knee to the rocketman.

Re: S&P 500 rejects SpaceX, also blocking entry for OpenAI and Anthropic

#70

Post by Muromec »

somewhatgoated wrote: post #26
danielovichdk wrote: post #16

Stocks and money. It's so boring. I will go drive my old German car now, and get a bit drunk in a bottle of Nebbiolo while listening to some French lunatic with a piano. Enjoy your trip to Mars and your self driving toy cars. The world is off its rails. Bit time.

Sir this is a message board run by an US-American venture capitalist organisation; frankly what do you expect

I expect the balancers to judge and some car batteries mysteriously catching fire as a counterweight.
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