India's surprise baby bust • Hacker News Board

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#571

Post by m4rtink » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 1:29 AM UTC

belval wrote: post #324

everdrive wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the hellscape that is Japan. The Japanese are currently fleeing to South Sudan and Darfur in hopes of a better life.

The 42.7M tourists that went there in 2025 just enjoyed seeing the incredible decay of a dying country, a morbid fascination or sorts. /s (obviously)

You can actually see it if you know where to look - edges of big cities but it is most visible in the countryside and smaller towns.

And if you want to see how real Armageddon looks like, go visit Yubari: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%ABbari,_Hokkaido

The collapse was due to local coal mining no longer being viable, but it still demonstrates how it looks like when a city goes from 107000 people in 1960 to 5600 in 2025.

Large empty areas where homes and factories used to be, old billboards for stuff that no longer exists, whole school buildings and gymnasiums out of use and overgrown. Most shops closed or hardly open & few remaining occupied buildings in the middle of it.

Was a really special experience & the local coal mining museum was super interesting - just wondering for how long it can continue going...

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#572

Post by b0rtb0rt » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 1:31 AM UTC

submain wrote: post #275

xeonmc wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So support should be provided for incentivizing younger parenthood then, like guaranteed tuition assistance per children born?

Is that enough though? Women change their entire bodies, sacrifice years of their lives, and go through considerable stress to have a baby. And at the end, the benefits of that ordeal are not clear. Society would need to offer something to offset all those costs.

most people find great fulfillment in having children

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#573

Post by jrmg » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 1:31 AM UTC

scoofy wrote: post #457

jrmg wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really the message of Abundance . I both liked Abundance and think there’s truth to what you’re saying. But it wasn’t what I took away from the book (perhaps it was in there - but what I really got was ‘for a better future we need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot, and be prepared to enthusiastically think of and promote the greater good rather than protecting every single valuable individual thing’)

I mean, I agree with what you're saying, but it misses that abundance means abundance . Consumer staples should cost near the price of production, and where margins are out of control, the government should step in and end the rent-seeking... that is what abundance is. If we live in a society where there is no price appreciation in owning an apartment to rent because another apartment can be build next door, then we…

I think that’s compatible with my take:

Be prepared to enthusiastically think of and promote the greater good (abundant, cheaper housing in this case) rather than protecting every single valuable individual thing (existing house value, amongst many other things, in this case).

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#574

Post by matchbok3 » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 1:32 AM UTC

voiceofchoice wrote: post #251

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #69

This has happened to every single society [*] as it industrializes [0], and offering extensive support and incentives to parents (e.g. as has been tried in Scandinavian countries) does very little to reverse this trend [1, 2]. My hypothesis is that as societies industrialize, they afford their population more and more activities that are simply more fun and rewarding than having children. So many people I know put of…

For the first time ever people can finally choose not to have kids. Is it really any surprise people would opt out? Go spend a day with kids and you'll see why people would rather not deal with the mess. Especially women who actually end up doing the majority of the work. Add to that the extinction level pressures like climate change and the absolute lack of any benefit whatsoever in being a parent, who is crazy enou…

1. Climate change is most certainly not an extinction level event. 2. I spend many days with kids. They are great. I suggest you do the same and experience the human experience. Someone had to deal with the piece of crap you were when you were 2 years old, after all. 3. You'll stop praising the lack of children when you are 80 and nobody young wants to take care of you. You will have a lonely, lonely existence.

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#575

Post by Qem » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 1:32 AM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #461

pjc50 wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We spent decades fighting teen pregnancy for this?

the reason we have been fighting teen pregnancy is because as a society we decided not to support young parents, and because teen pregnancy happens out of wedlock with the fathers usually disappearing. i believe historically this comes from the fact that mothers used to stay at home, so as soon as you had a child you would not go to school anymore. we could decide otherwise and create structures where young people, s…

> because teen pregnancy happens out of wedlock with the fathers usually disappearing

Usually disappeared. Once DNA tests were invented, it became straighforward to go after them. Underrated breakthrough to support children and single mothers.

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#576

Post by sethammons » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 1:35 AM UTC

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #68

i_idiot wrote: post #8

What's the strong case against population dwindling other than supporting aging population? Given the AI armageddon, it just makes sense to reduce the population. If there's less population, we need less production and less workers. Of course, countries have to deal with oldest population for a brief period of time.

>What's the strong case against population dwindling other than supporting aging population? Given the AI armageddon, Because you're not "dwindling the population" in the way you think. You're not taking an "8 billion" number and changing it to "4 billion". You're taking this growing organism, and switching it into a shrinking mode. Worse, you're changing it to "shrinking mode" in a way where you can't switch it out…

This is NOT human extinction. Just the collapse of global modernity.

Why would the last group of N people not subsistence farm? "Guess we wont try to live like people have for the last x million years, here is a good place to lay down and die."

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#577

Post by b0rtb0rt » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 1:36 AM UTC

cjs_ac wrote: post #367

b65e8bee43c2ed0 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Not decline, but Australia considered its population too small after the Second World War and very successfully integrated immigrants from an increasing diversity of source countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-war_immigration_to_Austra...

there’s a lot less to lose when your native population is a bunch of criminals and convicts

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#578

Post by b0rtb0rt » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 1:38 AM UTC

vkou wrote: post #99

mekdoonggi wrote: post #56

If they have the freedom to choose otherwise, they will. The global fertility "crisis" is simply individuals exercising their choices. Kids are really expensive, and if you want people to willingly have them outside of accidents, you're going to need to pay them a lot of money.

There's no amount of money (that society could ever afford to pay) that could convince my wife to have children.

[flagged]

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#579

Post by matchbok3 » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 1:38 AM UTC

pelagicAustral wrote: post #29

> But as India and others hurtle through their demographic transition, the consequences will not be pain-free. Pain for whom? The people profiting from cheap labor probably. Why is such a massive sin to scale down? To slow down a bit, I don't think the whole world is about to collapse, but even if it was, I rather that than turning it all into the hellscapes we see on some of the most overpopulated places in the worl…

The world is not even close to 1% "overpopulated".

The 1% indulge? The greatest thing a person can do is raise a child and build a legacy. No class warfare or nonsense about climate change can change that.

If you want a smaller world, fine. Then give up your 401k, retirement funds, and government care in old age. Because my kids are the ones paying for 100% of that. Think of someone other than yourself.

Re: India's surprise baby bust

#580

Post by b0rtb0rt » Sat, Jun 06, 2026, 1:39 AM UTC

scbrg wrote: post #394

g3f32r wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yep. And that's good! That's freedom of choice. Is it? Was it actually her choice? Or was she propagandized into being a fully-available consumer? Was she fed a steady diet of anti-natalist/anti-family formation and pro-independence (pro-consume) media and government policies from the moment she was born?

An alternative take is that we've endured thousands of years of propaganda aimed at keeping women as child bearing, house keeping slaves, and we're finally starting to see the end of that in at least some cultures. But of course, it's only "propaganda" when you don't like it.

maybe it’s not propaganda if it’s been around for the entire human existence until the last 50 years