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Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

alexispurslane.github.io

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Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why do you want to know that? So you can call our projects slop? Ostracize us?

So that the AI model that generated code can get proper credit and we'll know to use (or not use it) next time.

That's not at all what someone who wants to "tell at a glance who used AI" actually wants to know.

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of the Claude attribution is that you can tell at a glance who used AI. I don't care about the advertising angle. We all know Claude by now. I want some indicator that AI was used.

And why do you want to know that? So you can call our projects slop? Ostracize us?

Because LLMs are not humans, and the code they produce will have a different distribution of failure modes than human written code, so attribution is useful info while reviewing?

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#153
post #123
post #80

Unfortunately for the people mad about this, I predict the only thing they will accomplish by pressuring the rsync maintainers, is to discourage everyone else from responsibly disclosing their use of AI. You’re just going to make people disable Claude attribution on their commits to avoid drama.

I never care about AI usage disclosure, because I don't believe that human produced code is necessarily better than AI produced code, unless it's someone I personally know. People need to be responsible for code they commit and push anyways. This has never changed. Whether the code is written by hand, by their cat walking over keyboard, or by AI, is not my concern. A project's code quality can decline for all kinds o…

something as simple as requiring sign-offs like the DCO maybe relevant to people who care. I do think the driveby stuff may get smaller. People dont need to get stuff upstream. I have lots of patches I am keeping downmstrea and instead have a trigger system when new packages updates drop into debian and i rebuild the package with my patches on top using quill. Other systems like gentoo basically always supported this flow.

So - why bother forking or going upstream? maybe its selfish. I think publishing the patches are cool but I feel less of a need to force other people into doing what I want or even writing every possible configuration or solution. I just hack it for me

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why do you want to know that? So you can call our projects slop? Ostracize us?

You don't need an AI attribution tag to recognize slop. In my experience reviewing PRs, the slop-pushers are most aggressive about stripping the AI attribution anyway. It's the normal devs who use a little bit of AI who leave it in. The tag is helpful because AI authorship is different than the human authorship. When you work with a project or team for long enough you start to trust certain people and their intuition…

> I don't know why you're so defensive.

Check it out:

https://lobste.rs/s/29pm2f/llm_generated_submissions_should_...

https://lobste.rs/s/ytim7h/collection_small_low_stakes_low_e...

Re: Did Claude increase bugs in rsync?

#158
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say, "I see content, not style," you are separating what is being said from how it is being said. While it is great that you can extract the core message, you are missing a fundamental truth about writing: style and content are rarely completely separate. Writing involves both. Poor prose does not just make writing ugly — it creates friction, obscures nuance, and introduces ambiguity. You can eat a gourmet m…

The internet is going to really suck for you if you keep that attitude, because LLM use will only increase. Though also maybe not too much as the LLM-isms will likely be fine-tuned out of them to the point that the only way you'll be sure something is done with one is if the author left a note saying such. But maybe that'll make it suck even more as then you'd be without a definite target most of the time, always won…

Uh... huh.

I waited a minute to make sure you weren't going to delete this post because frankly, if I had written it, I would have. Guess not, so... Here goes.

No. It is not the fault of my "attitude" that the Internet is going to suck. That is a complete reversal of the reality. The fact that even people without bad intent are already spreading slop everywhere should be enough evidence to essentially prove that there was never any hope. If this is what good actors are doing, what exactly do you expect from bad actors?

Also, to stress it yet again, I don't care if people use LLMs in general. I'll even say that I don't particularly care very much if people use them without disclosing it in most cases. If you're using it like a normal tool and not merely just dumping the output verbatim there is not any particular need to disclose it any more than you'd disclose other tools, though I think people would prefer if you did just for transparency.

My chief complaint is just how bad LLM slop writing is. It simply is not good at all. It would literally be much better for the Internet if they weren't so turboshit at writing. There is almost no writing style I don't prefer over garbage LLM writing. I'm dead serious. Early LLMs were worse at almost everything else, but they were a lot better at writing for sure. Something went wrong somewhere.

But I do also believe that it is inherently bad to dump prose as-if you are communicating as a human, but said prose isn't actually written by a human. If someone shows me a cool drawing that they made, that means that they sat there and went through the process of sketching, possibly multiple drafts, inking, coloring/shading/painting/etc. to create an expression. This involves many human skills that take years to hone, and every detail carries someone's explicit intention. I think that this is cool, and shows a great degree of skill and effort.

When you, of course, generate some crap from an image generator, it may very well look similar. It may emulate some actual defects that make it look like someone really drew it. But someone didn't. A model went directly from a text prompt and dumped out pixels on screen. No sketching. No layers. No thought processes about how to frame things or what details to include. That doesn't mean zero effort went in: I'm sure in many cases someone sat around and fudged with LoRas and inpainting for a couple hours and pulled the slot machine lever to get good seeds and etc. That doesn't mean that an AI model does not have some model for how to structure an appealing image: it does, that's obviously why the results can look decent to begin with. But when you dump out an image from an image generator and you wink wink nudge nudge present it as your own and people evaluate it as if you drew it, this is basically fraud. Everyone looking at it who doesn't know it is AI generated actually believes you went through the normal effort of drawing that image and all of the years of practicing skills and acquiring knowledge that takes. That's bullshit, and it takes away from the actual accomplishments of people who put in the work like cheating in sports does.

Like yeah, a lot of people are cheating at chess, by passing off engine play as their own, but does that really make it okay? When the entire point is using your brain and not just the raw outputs themselves, doesn't that hit you as a problem?

For generative AI, I personally draw this line at what I feel are expressions of creativity. If you use AI for drawing references, whatever. If you use AI to generate globs of repetitive code, whatever. Code can be creative but I do not view it as an expression of creativity and almost any tool is fair game. If you are using ML models for motion capture or some other data processing thing where humans had to do repetitive work before, whatever. Maybe these tools sometimes do devalue the work, but the LLMs are not doing the interesting part here, they're doing the boring part. (This is, in part, an admission that actually writing code is often pretty boring in and of itself, something that I realize programmers have been inconsistent with in an attempt to justify their value. But, I still believe it to be true.)

So okay fine. People are reluctant to disclose that they used AI to generate text because they fear the backlash that it will get them. This is understandable. What upsets me about this is that well-meaning people are apparently falling back to the idea that because LLM backlash is strong, what would be better than either trying to just simply write your own damn posts or be honest about your usage of LLMs... Is to just try to wink wink nudge nudge pass off more or less verbatim LLM writing as if it's a post that you wrote.

I am not ruining the Internet. There is literally nothing I or any group of angry mobs could do that would even remotely slow down the decay of the Internet even if we desperately wanted to.

So in fact, I'm not even trying to not ruin the Internet. I don't particularly care if my attitude is not helping or hurting. I'm not having an attitude as part of some grand strategy to save or destroy the internet. I'm having an attitude, because I am pissed off.

And I am pissed off because I am tired of reading posts the author probably only skimmed themselves.

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