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New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

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Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#121

It's pretty obvious the outrage around datacenters has nothing to do with datacenters and everything to do with knee capping AI progress. People should just focus on that, because you really really have to reach to make a metal box that hums into an existential environmental crisis. Ultimately you end up looking stupid and uninformed, because you have to lie and half-truth to make datacenters look evil. And the peopl…

> People should just focus on that, because you really really have to reach to make a metal box that hums into an existential environmental crisis. Turns out you you don't have to reach very far at all https://arxiv.org/abs/2412.06288 https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/data-c... https://news.asu.edu/20260518-environment-and-sustainability... We already know that that data centers impact the environ…

Did you read these or did you just post them to illustrate my point? Like the only real datacenter centric point made in all three is that you can detect air being a couple degrees warmer within 1,700ft of a datacenter.

The rollingstone article is crazy, because it's actually just about agricultural runoff which is poisoning a well Amazon uses for cooling.

My point here isn't that datacenters have zero impact, my point is that if people actually cared about any of these things, datacenters are way down on the list of causes. Unless I suppose you live within 1,700 ft of one.

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What mess? It's a big empty metal box with a heck of an HVAC system and a parking lot sized for industrial use. Just about any less specialized use could be pivoted to at any point during or after construction. These things only become static "messes" or "blighted" because regulation prevents fire sale and pivot to a new use from being viable. Edit: People really seem to be ignoring the sentence prior to this edit. F…

I lived for many years in the rust belt -- abandoned industrial properties aren't particularly attractive to have in your community. Nor are they attractive to industry unless they're already outfitted for their particular use. Many of these projects are making messes to local infrastructure, the construction and municipal costs associated with that, the wear on local roads, etc. And abandoned buildings are a mess be…

Data centers are not industrial. It’s a 6” slab with prefabricated walls, bar joists, and a metal roof. There’s no continuous distillation column, smelter, fly ash pond, tailings pond, or anything remotely industrial.

Data centers are essentially an Amazon distribution center that is filled with servers instead of racking with a shitload of electrical and HVAC equipment.

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So other people's back yards it is! What a wonderful philosophy. As for Amazon HQ, I don't know what NY's deal was but I was in Boston when it was a consideration and the amount of tax breaks they wanted was insane and would have been a huge net loss for the city. I'm very glad it wasn't moved there. It doesn't matter if you create a few thousand jobs if you get literal billions in tax breaks, it's a net loss for the…

Well there are plenty of places that aren’t in anyone’s backyard

"in [someone's] backyard" is a colloquialism that refers to "those who are in that area"

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived for many years in the rust belt -- abandoned industrial properties aren't particularly attractive to have in your community. Nor are they attractive to industry unless they're already outfitted for their particular use. Many of these projects are making messes to local infrastructure, the construction and municipal costs associated with that, the wear on local roads, etc. And abandoned buildings are a mess be…

Data centers are not industrial. It’s a 6” slab with prefabricated walls, bar joists, and a metal roof. There’s no continuous distillation column, smelter, fly ash pond, tailings pond, or anything remotely industrial. Data centers are essentially an Amazon distribution center that is filled with servers instead of racking with a shitload of electrical and HVAC equipment.

[deleted]

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#125

It's pretty obvious the outrage around datacenters has nothing to do with datacenters and everything to do with knee capping AI progress. People should just focus on that, because you really really have to reach to make a metal box that hums into an existential environmental crisis. Ultimately you end up looking stupid and uninformed, because you have to lie and half-truth to make datacenters look evil. And the peopl…

> because you really really have to reach to make a metal box that hums into an existential environmental crisis. I think most people are aware that computers don't emit pollution directly. It's the externalities that do.

So why aren't they protesting meat production, SUV sales, or golf courses?

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#126

I clicked the article expecting to see some feel-good political grandstanding (I'm a bit cynical these days) but honestly, this seems like a decent approach. Pause approvals for a year giving breathing room for researching the impacts, and hopefully address them.

Are data centers a new and mysterious technology?

> Are data centers a new and mysterious technology?

They are quite a polluting technology. https://www.staxengineering.com/stax-hub/the-environmental-i...

They also consume significant water causing water scarcity in many places.

https://www.eesi.org/articles/view/data-centers-and-water-co...

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2025-ai-impacts-data-cent...

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People should just focus on that, because you really really have to reach to make a metal box that hums into an existential environmental crisis. Turns out you you don't have to reach very far at all https://arxiv.org/abs/2412.06288 https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/data-c... https://news.asu.edu/20260518-environment-and-sustainability... We already know that that data centers impact the environ…

Did you read these or did you just post them to illustrate my point? Like the only real datacenter centric point made in all three is that you can detect air being a couple degrees warmer within 1,700ft of a datacenter. The rollingstone article is crazy, because it's actually just about agricultural runoff which is poisoning a well Amazon uses for cooling. My point here isn't that datacenters have zero impact, my poi…

> The rollingstone article is crazy, because it's actually just about agricultural runoff which is poisoning a well Amazon uses for cooling.

Did you actually read that article? The issue isn't that amazon is the source of the nitrates, the problem is that the data center is concentrating them and pushing them into the aquifer. Saying that the data center isn't responsible is like arguing that desalination plants don't cause pollution because the brine came from the ocean.

When the Port sprays that water back over the farms, some of the nitrates are absorbed by the crops, but there’s a limit to how much the sandy soil and shallow-root plants can hold before it leaks all the way through the dirt, polluting the aquifer below. “The aquifer is basically one giant sandbox, and the water flows through there very quickly,” says Chad Gubala, a hydrologist who managed Oregon DEQ’s oversight of the Port of Morrow’s wastewater permit from 2018 to 2022. Once the crops have absorbed what they can, the rest of the nitrates “get flushed right through [to the basin].”

Experts say Amazon’s arrival supercharged this process. The data centers suck up tens of millions of gallons of water from the aquifer each year to cool their computer equipment, which then gets funneled to the Port’s wastewater system. All of the data center water gets mixed into the dirty lagoon wastewater, which only increases how much water the Port must then discard over the fields. As Greg Pettit, who served at the DEQ for 38 years and led the development of Oregon’s Groundwater Quality, explains, “the more water you put on, the faster you’re going to drive the nitrogen through the soil and down into the aquifer.” ...

As the underground aquifer became tainted with more nitrates, even the ostensibly clean water that the Port pulled from the aquifer’s deepest wells — which it used to service its large industrial customers like Amazon — became polluted. Soon, Amazon was using water to cool its data warehouses with nitrates as high as 13 ppm — above the federal and state limits.

When that tainted water moves through the data centers to absorb heat from the server systems, some of the water is evaporated, but the nitrates remain, increasing the concentration. That means that when the polluted water has moved through the data centers and back into the wastewater system, it’s even more contaminated, sometimes averaging as high as 56 ppm, eight times Oregon’s safety limit.

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because you really really have to reach to make a metal box that hums into an existential environmental crisis. I think most people are aware that computers don't emit pollution directly. It's the externalities that do.

So why aren't they protesting meat production, SUV sales, or golf courses?

1. People do protest these things

2. There is not currently trillions of dollars of investment driving the construction of those projects

3. None of those concerns are currently driving up utility costs in the communities where they exist

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things are cash cows for local municipalities. I don't think that aspect is communicated at all, or at least the media leaves that part out. A town a with a $50M budget can easily have a single large datacenter cover the townsfolk's entire tax bill, and then some. The worst part is the fan noise, but I am sure they can figure that out.

What? These things are built specifically where the towns give them tax breaks

Generally datacenters are built in less dense areas that already have low taxes. So the cost to "buyout" the town council (i.e. "We will cover 75% of your municipal budget") is a rounding error for the datacenter builders.

Its states and federal usually offering tax breaks. But at least on the lowest level, it's pretty cheap to buyout a rural town, and that's why you get these town councils voting 9-0 to approve the projects before anyone even hears about it.

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived for many years in the rust belt -- abandoned industrial properties aren't particularly attractive to have in your community. Nor are they attractive to industry unless they're already outfitted for their particular use. Many of these projects are making messes to local infrastructure, the construction and municipal costs associated with that, the wear on local roads, etc. And abandoned buildings are a mess be…

Data centers are not industrial. It’s a 6” slab with prefabricated walls, bar joists, and a metal roof. There’s no continuous distillation column, smelter, fly ash pond, tailings pond, or anything remotely industrial. Data centers are essentially an Amazon distribution center that is filled with servers instead of racking with a shitload of electrical and HVAC equipment.

Both an AI hyperscaler and an Amazon warehouse would be typically classified as "light industrial".

> There’s no continuous distillation column, smelter, fly ash pond, tailings pond, or anything remotely industrial.

This is typically classified as "heavy industrial"

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