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New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

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Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#101

Post by macNchz »

fintechjock wrote: post #87
wat10000 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The massive spike in the price of RAM is making consumer electronics more expensive and worse.

True, for the average HN consumer But a new iPhone Pro is $154 cheaper than it was in 2020 when adjusted for inflation, and that is probably all the average consumer really cares about

To my understanding Apple's supply contracts have allowed them to keep prices flat compared to other brands, but the price of non-Mac desktops and laptops are absolutely ballooning right now because of the supply of memory chips. Apple themselves just last month increased the base price of the Mac Mini by 33% from $599 to $799.

The smartphone market appears to be affected as well: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/global-smartphone-market...

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#102

Post by autoexec »

fintechjock wrote: post #60
babypuncher wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mad rush to build datacenters at this unprecedented scale is already wreaking havoc on the consumer economy. The needs of everyday people are far more important than the whims of a few trillion dollar tech companies run by billioinaires.

How are they harming consumers? I would think that consumers would vastly benefit from cheaper software, nearly unlimited cloud storage, lower property taxes. Heck, the next generation of data centers are looking like they will actually be net energy producers. Consumers might not know that they benefit from data centers, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t

> How are they harming consumers?

Consumers like breathing (https://spectrum.ieee.org/data-centers-pollution) and drinking clean water (https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/data-center-accused-m...). The noise is loud enough to cause hearing damage, and the smell and light pollution isn't helping consumers either.

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#103

Post by nancyminusone »

WarmWash wrote: post #92

It's pretty obvious the outrage around datacenters has nothing to do with datacenters and everything to do with knee capping AI progress. People should just focus on that, because you really really have to reach to make a metal box that hums into an existential environmental crisis. Ultimately you end up looking stupid and uninformed, because you have to lie and half-truth to make datacenters look evil. And the peopl…

I can assure you that people protesting the the one near where I live barely know or care about AI, but they know something is up when a giant evil fuckass building shows up seemingly overnight. Who knows what sort of horrible things are going on inside, it's not like you'll be allowed in to check. The only connection to AI is that the AI companies placed the order for it.

My town also protested when Walmart decided they wanted to install one of their mega shopping centers here. A big building means someone has too much money, and its only a matter of time until they use it against YOU.

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#104

Post by kube-system »

kemotep wrote: post #97
oceanplexian wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love more datacenters so I can colo my pet projects and startup like I was doing in the early 2000s The point where we decided we would put all infrastructure in N. Virginia, stop owning hardware and rent it from a corporation charging 10x markup was right about when the Internet started going downhill.

I live in rural Ohio and there is like 6? Colo places within an hour’s drive. When I lived outside of Orlando there was like a dozen in Orlando alone. If you look up Colo options in your area, what is lacking? These new datacenters are high density AI hypercalers. They are not traditional Colo DC’s. It’s more like a whole new AWS AZ is getting slapped down. More of the same cloud computing you’re complaining about.

If anything, existing colos are going to be hurt by what's going on right now, as they're getting all of the political backlash from the AI hyperscaler bullshit going on.

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#105

Post by j_w »

fintechjock wrote: post #60
babypuncher wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mad rush to build datacenters at this unprecedented scale is already wreaking havoc on the consumer economy. The needs of everyday people are far more important than the whims of a few trillion dollar tech companies run by billioinaires.

How are they harming consumers? I would think that consumers would vastly benefit from cheaper software, nearly unlimited cloud storage, lower property taxes. Heck, the next generation of data centers are looking like they will actually be net energy producers. Consumers might not know that they benefit from data centers, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t

> consumers would vastly benefit from cheaper software, nearly unlimited cloud storage, lower property taxes.

What data centers are bringing cheaper software, unlimited cloud storage (for free?), or lower local property taxes?

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#106

Post by kube-system »

kibwen wrote: post #27
arjie wrote: post #8

Am I the only one who wants a datacenter in his backyard? I actually went down a little over a year ago to get a cabinet down at Hosting.com’s old location round the corner only to find that they’ve been gone from there (and the DC business) for a few years now and the new owners have kept it fallow. I have to drive down to Fremont for a similar price point now. I would gladly have paid 30% more to just go down the s…

Datacenters are extremely loud, you definitely don't want one in your approximate backyard. Ever considered fan noise while shopping for laptops? If so, then you don't want to live within a mile of a datacenter.

Some datacenters are loud. Some are quiet.

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#107

Post by liglam »

WarmWash wrote: post #92

It's pretty obvious the outrage around datacenters has nothing to do with datacenters and everything to do with knee capping AI progress. People should just focus on that, because you really really have to reach to make a metal box that hums into an existential environmental crisis. Ultimately you end up looking stupid and uninformed, because you have to lie and half-truth to make datacenters look evil. And the peopl…

[dead]

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#108

Post by runtime_terror »

ecshafer wrote: post #93
runtime_terror wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minimal impact as defined by whom? I'm sure they impact those that live around them plenty as well as the price on electricity for those on the same grid. They provide mostly temporary jobs (and majority imported to boot), after construction they're run with very little staff. New York needs to upgrade its power grid (source?) so they should force it upon themselves by primitively overloading the grid? A one year mor…

Lets say they build 100 Data Centers in Oswego county. Per Capita income is only $20k and one of the poorest in new york state. There is a lot of space that is not used for anything. 100 Data Centers is going to provide some amount of jobs at each one, remote hands, janitorial, security, etc. Those all pay more than the per capita income. At scale you need some amount of plumbers, facilities, electricians, etc. Not t…

Local labor is often not used to build them. Most of these companies have crews they bring in during build out. Plus the actual setup of the facility is highly skilled: everyone is imported. The only local jobs we're talking about would be things like security, cleaning, and maybe some site prep work. The actual technical staff will not be hired locally in the majority of cases.

The argument here tho is the amount of jobs provided does not do a good enough job counteracting the downsides (noise, ground water pollution, generator air pollution, grid load and offset costs to customers, etc). In most cases these far outweigh <50 jobs if you look at overall cost/benefits.

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#109

Post by runtime_terror »

fintechjock wrote: post #74
runtime_terror wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minimal impact as defined by whom? I'm sure they impact those that live around them plenty as well as the price on electricity for those on the same grid. They provide mostly temporary jobs (and majority imported to boot), after construction they're run with very little staff. New York needs to upgrade its power grid (source?) so they should force it upon themselves by primitively overloading the grid? A one year mor…

What would you estimate is the annual electricity spend for those living next to data centers and those who don’t?

Not sure how to answer this.

It's pretty well documented that datacenters (esp the AI variety) are offloading grid expenses to customers as higher baseline costs.

The issue is that these DCs are not paying for the cost of the necessary grid upgrades but are instead having the power cos pass these costs off to all consumers as base increases.

Re: New York just passed a one-year temporary ban on data centers

#110

Post by kube-system »

ecshafer wrote: post #93
runtime_terror wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minimal impact as defined by whom? I'm sure they impact those that live around them plenty as well as the price on electricity for those on the same grid. They provide mostly temporary jobs (and majority imported to boot), after construction they're run with very little staff. New York needs to upgrade its power grid (source?) so they should force it upon themselves by primitively overloading the grid? A one year mor…

Lets say they build 100 Data Centers in Oswego county. Per Capita income is only $20k and one of the poorest in new york state. There is a lot of space that is not used for anything. 100 Data Centers is going to provide some amount of jobs at each one, remote hands, janitorial, security, etc. Those all pay more than the per capita income. At scale you need some amount of plumbers, facilities, electricians, etc. Not t…

Then the local utility companies have to undertake giant projects to keep up with demand. They issue many millions in bonds. Also, all of the construction trucks tear up the local roads. The local municipality has to allocate a bunch of money to fix the roads.

Then, next year, the AI bubble pops, and most of those data centers shutter their doors and stop contributing tax revenue.

Now you have the same $20k per capita income, but many millions more in debt!

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