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Tracing a powerful GNSS interference source over Europe

arxiv.org

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Re: Tracing a powerful GNSS interference source over Europe

#121

Post by avazhi »

numlock86 wrote: post #120
avazhi wrote: post #109

It's been known that Russia does GPS interference near their Western border and the Baltic down to Ukraine for several years now. It's something airline pilots prepare for now, and expect. Not sure why this is being couched as novel or surprising.

You could actually try reading the paper first before posting comments like this.

Was responding to many of these comments, which read as if the commenters haven’t heard of this before.

The top comment in this thread is some dude asking if we can ‘do something now that we know the source’ lol.

We’ve known the source for 5 years. The fact this particular jamming originates from a Russian satellite and not Russian terrestrial-based equipment doesn’t change much. And while it’s unconvenient for planes and affects separation minima, planes have inertial systems and pilots deal with this easily. It happens in many places around the world, actually, although the Russians are definitely the worst offenders.

Re: Tracing a powerful GNSS interference source over Europe

#122

Post by brohee »

throw0101a wrote: post #23
sippeangelo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The theory that they broadcast communication on a band near GPS in order to discourage jamming of their early warning system sounds likely. Flexing the ability to jam GPS is pointless, since it's obvious that any state actor who has military satellites in orbit has considered this option or have the capability already. Therefore, the disruptions must either be regular tests of the capability, or just actual communica…

> Flexing the ability to jam GPS is pointless, since it's obvious that any state actor who has military satellites in orbit has considered this option or have the capability already. Forget "state actors", truck drivers have taken out entire airports with GPS jammers: * https://www.cnet.com/culture/truck-driver-has-gps-jammer-acc... People like the Resilient Navigation and Timing Foundation have been trying for years…

Celestial Navigation is also doable even in daylight nowadays, e.g. https://sodern.com/en/ranges/astradia

Re: Tracing a powerful GNSS interference source over Europe

#124

Post by Supernaut »

lenerdenator wrote: post #88
stef25 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That covers most of Poland, wtf

Why wouldn't it? The behavior will continue until a consequence is imposed. Not on regular Russians, mind. Their ruling class. They're still free to move about the continent, make investments, do whatever. Currently Europe seems to be more interested in breaking away from the US than dealing with the power that has killed hundreds of thousands on their own continent.

> They're still free to move about the continent, make investments, do whatever

Except that's not true at all, is it? See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during...

Re: Tracing a powerful GNSS interference source over Europe

#125

Post by labcomputer »

trumpdong wrote: post #105
ralferoo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One question I would have about the comms theory is whether the amount of power being used would be reasonable for that use-case. Jamming tends to be much higher power than just communicating, but also GNSS signals are very low bandwidth as comms channels go GPS is suprisingly low power. I believe the satellites themselves transmit between 20W and 50W, and in general the signal is quieter than the background noise…

FWIW this is how almost every communication system works. They're all weaker than background noise (e.g. sunlight) but you extract them by correlating with some kind of carrier signal (often but not always a sine wave)

Err what?

No, conventional radio broadcasts can be received with a low noise amplifier and a tuned filter.

The received GPS signal, at ground level, is lower than the thermal noise floor. And the 1.023MHz code is modulated on the RF carrier anyway.

Re: Tracing a powerful GNSS interference source over Europe

#126

Post by labcomputer »

brohee wrote: post #122
throw0101a wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Flexing the ability to jam GPS is pointless, since it's obvious that any state actor who has military satellites in orbit has considered this option or have the capability already. Forget "state actors", truck drivers have taken out entire airports with GPS jammers: * https://www.cnet.com/culture/truck-driver-has-gps-jammer-acc... People like the Resilient Navigation and Timing Foundation have been trying for years…

Celestial Navigation is also doable even in daylight nowadays, e.g. https://sodern.com/en/ranges/astradia

It's been doable since the 1940's.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2981843A/en

Re: Tracing a powerful GNSS interference source over Europe

#127

Post by Npovview »

awestroke wrote: post #84
Coala15 wrote: post #54

Being engaged to warfare with Russia and being jammed in response. So weird.

Russia is the aggressor. What do you propose?

Playing Devil's advocate, given how much firepower Russia has, why is it so soft on Ukraine. I mean what is the endgoal for Russia here? Tire out the US/NATO Empire just as US did to Soviets in Afghanistan. I sometimes feel like all these events are orchestrated as Simon Dixon talks about them in his videos.

https://www.youtube.com/@SimonDixon21/videos

Re: Tracing a powerful GNSS interference source over Europe

#128

Post by dmitrygr »

adrian_b wrote: post #99
Coala15 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relax, Russia didn't attacked Europe yet (if you mean EU).

It may not have attacked intentionally the EU yet, but a week ago there was an incident when a Russian drone apparently strayed away from whatever Ukrainian target it may have had, and it hit an apartment building in the city of Galati, in Romania, in the EU, injuring two people. In the past there have been other incidents with Russian weapons reaching the neighboring countries from the EU, like Poland and Romania, b…

That was not a Russian drone in Romania. Ukraine has admitted it was theirs.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c707098wkzpo

Re: Tracing a powerful GNSS interference source over Europe

#129

Post by dieortin »

Npovview wrote: post #127
awestroke wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is the aggressor. What do you propose?

Playing Devil's advocate, given how much firepower Russia has, why is it so soft on Ukraine. I mean what is the endgoal for Russia here? Tire out the US/NATO Empire just as US did to Soviets in Afghanistan. I sometimes feel like all these events are orchestrated as Simon Dixon talks about them in his videos. https://www.youtube.com/@SimonDixon21/videos

In which way is Russia being soft on Ukraine?

Re: Tracing a powerful GNSS interference source over Europe

#130

Post by sorenjan »

Supernaut wrote: post #124
lenerdenator wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't it? The behavior will continue until a consequence is imposed. Not on regular Russians, mind. Their ruling class. They're still free to move about the continent, make investments, do whatever. Currently Europe seems to be more interested in breaking away from the US than dealing with the power that has killed hundreds of thousands on their own continent.

> They're still free to move about the continent, make investments, do whatever Except that's not true at all, is it? See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_sanctions_during...

It's not completely true, but there are hundreds of thousands of visas given to Russian tourists each year by European countries, something that's hopefully will get corrected soon.

> According to data cited in Wednesday's letter, which was seen by Reuters, 477,878 Schengen visas were issued to Russian citizens for tourism in 2025, up from 440,558 in 2024.

https://www.reuters.com/world/sweden-urges-eu-tighten-rules-...

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